IAB Business Meeting -- December 11, 2001
Salt Lake City IETF
0700-0900 US Mountain
1830-2200 US Mountain
NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING:
Teleconference Tuesday January 8 (2002) 1500-1700 US ET.
ATTENDING
John Klensin -- IAB Chair
Harald Alvestrand (PM) -- IETF Chair
Ran Atkinson
Rob Austein
Fred Baker
Steve Bellovin -- IAB liaison to the IESG
Brian Carpenter
Leslie Daigle
Steve Deering
Sally Floyd
Erik Huizer -- IRTF Chair, Liaison from the IRTF
Geoff Huston (PM, phone)
Erik Nordmark (PM) -- IESG liaison to the IAB
Vern Paxson -- incoming IRTF Chair, Liaison from the IRTF
Lynn St.Amour -- Liaison from ISOC
Henning Schulzrinne
REGRETS:
Jon Crowcroft
Joyce K. Reynolds -- Liaison from RFC Editor
AGENDA
- Acceptance of minutes of past meetings
- November 20, 2001 (as circulated December 7, 2001)
- Review of Action Items (below)
- Review of current IAB documents (below)
- Liaison updates
- Any final prep for Thursday plenary
- Internationalization, and future of workshops
- Glorp vs. shipworm -- if there are any non-technical elements to this
discussion
NOTES
1. Acceptance of minutes of past meetings
- November 20, 2001 (as circulated December 7, 2001)
Accepted
2. Review of Action Items (see below)
3. Review of current IAB documents (see below)
4. Liaison updates
IESG
Nothing much to report: there has been discussion on what practical
steps to take with the IAB "OPES Considerations" draft and managing
the process with the OPES group if it's chartered.
W3C
PSO
ISOC
Had a very intense board meeting this past weekend. They have modified
by-laws for ISOC governance. Have also lowered budget for next year,
because of the overall industry slump and expectation of reduced
revenue. Individual membership is a traditional money-loser; part
of the restructuring will redirect individual membership payments to
chapters (i.e., no more paid individual membership within ISOC
directly). There will be 3 board seats that will be appointed by the
IETF (of a board of 15). Boot-strapping: we will appoint 2 by June.
ISOC will write job description and requirements. Individual
membership elections have been cancelled for the year.
IRTF
This week, the hand-off between outgoing and incoming IRTF Chairs
is taking place.
New co-chair for Routing Research Group (RRG) by end of week.
Biggest issue within the IRTF right now is DMCA ("this silly law that
the US has apparently created" -- Erik Huizer). ISOC might put out (another)
press release pointing out the real impact of this law on technology
development. Threat is overhanging digital rights management research
work (here (IDRM research group) and elsewhere); it looks like this
isn't going to get solved until someone gets sued.
General discussion noted that it is conceivable that everything we
do in the security area is as vulnerable to DMCA-based suit as anything
we do in digital rights management. Steve Bellovin pointed out that
encryption research has a loophole. John Klensin countered that applications
of cryptography are NOT covered (paranoid interpretation from EFF lawyers).
5. Any final prep for Thursday plenary
DMCA: outcome of IDRM RG session is that DMCA will be on our
Thursday plenary agenda. Our basic belief is that the IDRM
RG is not working on stuff the DMCA is targetting (e.g.,
hacking cryptography) -- it is focused on more general issues
of moving bits around. We should focus discussion on whether
there is a more general proposal for scoping what is or
is not within scope of IETF work. Must make it clear that IDRM is not
an IETF WG, it is an IRTF research group, and works under the
IRTF's charter.
OPES: Sally Floyd will present the OPES considerations document not
so much from the standpoint of "what we did with OPES", but
more from the view of where we're going with architecture.
This can express some specific things we got out of the
OPES meeting, and it can also act to focus discussion for the open
mic on architecture issues.
6. Internationalization, and future workshops
The "INTLOC" (Internationalization/Localization) BoF that was
held on Monday was the follow-on from the series of mini-workshops
the IAB promoted on the subject. It was clear from that session
that many viewpoints exist as to what the IETF can/should do
under the label of "internationalization".
Other workshop possibilities include having on-going mini-sessions focused
on trying to chart architecture-level views of things like the Applications
Layer architecture.
7. Glorp vs. shipworm
"Glorp" is the name that the IAB used for the proposed extension of
the MIDCOM WG charter to tackle the problem of letting applications
find/express their address in communications across NA[P]T
boundaries, before MIDCOM solutions are generally implemented
and deployed.
There was general discussion about this proposal, compared to the "shipworm"
proposal for IPv6 addresses. Brian Carpenter suggested shipworm is less
of a kludge because it doesn't violate layers. Shipworm effectively assigns
temporary addresses to sites that wouldn't have IPv6 ones. One key concern
was that deploying "glorp" patches will get in the way of deploying properly
architected solutions (e.g., MIDCOM).
General question: what is the transition plan? Shipworm fades away.
Does glorp? A transition plan should be a requirement from the IAB.
Sally Floyd points out that the value is in getting them to think about
the problems, it's not just questions from on high.
Leslie will draft up an "IAB Considerations/Radiation symbol" text for
the glorp and shipworm proposals, for the IESG to use as is appropriate.
OLD ACTION ITEMS
- Harald Alvestrand:
Arrange "International Internet" workshop/series of meetings.
[pre-May01]
Ongoing
Discussion has now reached full-circle: rough consensus that the
IAB ought to hold a workshop on the subject; we need some kind of
perpetual body but it should't be a working group; area directors are
busy; how about a mailing list? John points out this is
coming full circle. Hard problem, at a loss what to do
procedurally.
Ran Atkinson suggests an "Internationalization Considerations" document --
not the universe of good advice, but the extent to which the IETF
is going to require its protocols to conform.
Ran (and Henning Schulzrinne) will read the INTLOC documents and
comment back to the IAB as to whether they cover that range of "considerations".
- Rob Austein and Brian Carpenter:
Review and potentially update RFC 1958.
[pre-May01]
Ongoing
Draft text circulated to IAB for comment.
- John Klensin, Geoff Huston:
Float proposal for revised protocol assignment framework.
[Jun01]
Done (overtaken by events)
- Ran Atkinson:
(Definitive) history of the IETF; sit down with Mike St. Johns and nail
down the names and players of the early years, in a format for public
posting.
- John Klensin:
Talk to the IESG about IPR repository plan.
[Aug01]
Ongoing
John & Harald Alvestrand need to have a discussion with IESG &
Secretariat. John & Harald are declared the committee to deal
with this.
- Leslie Daigle:
Draft up IAB Considerations for CDI.
[Oct01]
Ongoing
Leslie spoke with Patrik Faltstrom, the responsible AD, and agreed to
write 2 paragraphs saying "any eventual WG shall distinguish between
short-term fix work and requirements for longer term, architectural
issues in the Application Layer". However, going through the
9 documents on the agenda for the CDI BoF in Salt Lake City,
it appears the group is very far along in its efforts to create
new architecture based on current operational mal-practices.
Conclusion: there isn't anything wrong with the current charter; but the documents
need a thorough review from all quarters.
Leslie will release the token to Patrik.
Sally suggests we need a general document about IAB considerations
-- long term versus short term, and so on.
NEW ACTION ITEMS
- Brian Carpenter, Lynn St.Amour
Draft ISOC board member job description and requirements for IETF
- Leslie Daigle
Draft "IAB Considerations/Radiation symbol" text for glorp/shipworm
work.
- Ran Atkinson, Henning Schulzrinne
Read INTLOC documents and comment on their applicability as
"Internationalization Considerations".
- Sally Floyd
First cut on "Architectural Considerations" document -- a generalization
of the discussions we've had about OPES, CDI, and glorp/shipworm.
IAB DRAFTS IN PROGRESS
- Ran Atkinson, Steve Bellovin:
Security considerations, including common security attacks.
- Steve Bellovin:
Applicability statement for security building blocks.
[pre-May01]
Ongoing
Jeff Schiller has sent draft, needs word-smithing, but looks good.
- Geoff Huston:
Architectural Requirements for Inter-Domain Routing in the Internet
[pre-May01]
Ongoing
Passed IESG review. On RFC-Editor plate as of October 29, 2001.
- Brian Carpenter:
Middle boxes: taxonomy and issues
[pre-May01]
Ongoing
Passed IESG review, and is on its way to RFC-Editor queue.
- Henning Schulzrinne:
Telephony Services PSTN interworking draft as an IAB document.
[pre-May01]
Ongoing
Detailed comments circulated on the IAB list. Ongoing out-of-
band discussions.
- Leslie Daigle:
IETF PSO-PC Process
[May01]
Ongoing.
Finalized redraft circulated on IAB list. Was a POISSON
document, but that group has since been closed, so it will be an IAB
document now (with a new document name). This was too late
for the "new document" submission deadline, so it will only
be submitted after the Salt Lake City IETF. It is targetting BCP
status, so the IESG will last call it.
- Sally Floyd:
IAB Considerations for OPES
[Oct01]
Ongoing
Passed IESG review, and is on its way to RFC-Editor queue.
FUTURE MEETINGS
Regular teleconference second Tuesday of the month 1500-1700 US East
Coast time.
These minutes were prepared by Leslie Daigle; comments should be sent to
iab-execd@iab.org.
An online copy of these and other minutes are available at
http://www.iab.org/documents/IABmins.
Also, visit the IAB Web page at http://www.iab.org.
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