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RFC2850

IAB Minutes 2001-05-08

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IAB Teleconference — May 8, 2001, 1500-1700ET

ATTENDING

      John Klensin — IAB Chair
      Harald Alvestrand — IETF/IESG Chair
      Ran Atkinson
      Fred Baker
      Steve Bellovin — Liaison to the IESG
      Randy Bush — Liaison from the IESG
      Leslie Daigle
      Sally Floyd
      Geoff Huston
      Joyce K. Reynolds — Liaison from the RFC Editor
      Henning Schulzrinne
      Lynn St.Amour — Liaison from ISOC

      REGRETS:

        Rob Austein
        Brian Carpenter
        Jon Crowcroft
        Steve Deering
        Erik Huizer — IRTF Chair, liaison from the IRTF

NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING

AGENDA

    IAB Teleconference — May 8, 2001, 3pm-5pm ET

    1. Acceptance of minutes of past meetings
      • April 10, 2001 (as circulated May 3, 2001)
    2. Review of Action Items
    3. Review of current IAB documents
    4. Liaison updates
    5. IAB liaison to IESG
    6. ITU/E.164 update
    7. PSO-PC appointments — POISSON, etc
    8. Liaison page — what, where, who manages
    9. Coordinating with W3C — they bailed from the last organized teleconference; (how) shall we proceed?
    10. IPR/prior art repository?
    11. IESG requests for architectural input
    12. IAB role/responsibilities
    13. Workshop planning

NOTES

    1. Acceptance of minutes of past meetings

        April 10, 2001 (as circulated May 3, 2001)

      Accepted.

    2. Review of Action Items

      See below.

    3. Review of current IAB documents

      See below.

    4. Liaison updates

      IESG
      SteveB had circulated today a collection of notes from IESG folks outlining some areas they’d like to see the IAB work on. To be discussed as a separate agenda item.

      Opportunity to discuss the revised IETF-week breakfast schedule (IESG and IAB will have some joint, some separate, time). No takers for discussion.

      IRTF
      Erik not on the call.

      PSO-PC
      June 1 — PSO-PC will open up the call for nominees for ICANN Board Member.

      W3C
      April 23 call was scrubbed due to lack of attendance.

      ISOC
      Board elections are done; see the report on the ISOC web page.

      RFC editor contract
      — still working on getting an updated statement of work. Expect to finish this by the end of May.

      Other News from Afield
      <none>

    5. IAB liaison to IESG

      In theory, this an annual position. SteveB willing to do again? Other takers? SteveB is willing.

      SteveB is officially reappointed.

    6. ITU/E.164 update

      Plan is to ahead and initiate discussions with the technical arm of ITU that is responsible for their number management — will work on a statement with Roy Blane of WP1/2 to clarify what specific proposals/issues we need to clear out to make ENUM work. Mention that tactic

      There will also be a joint John/Harald note to Houlin Zhao, as an update & official response about the proposed pre-London meetings.

    7. PSO-PC appointments — POISSON, etc

      After 2 years of experience with participating in ICANN’s Protocol Support Organization (PSO), and its Protocol Council (PSO-PC), we appear to have a better grip on what the current PSO/ICANN relationship requires in PSO-PC candidates. The general feeling seems to be heading towards: IAB should appoint the IETF’s PSO-PC members, and the IETF NomCom should be responsible for identifying suitable ICANN Board candidates for the PSO-PC’s annual Board member selection.

      Need to establish this as IETF process. Leslie will draft an I-D to cover the above processes, and pass it by IAB, IESG before we take it to POISSON as proposed process.

    8. Liaison page — what, where, who manages

      Needs links from IAB page and IESG page — currently only from IETF “Other Info” page, and IESG page. Perhaps just a note at the top “These are appointed by the IAB unless noted otherwise. Randy is appointed by IESG.”

      Delegated to Harald & John to work it out.

    9. Coordinating with W3C

        – they bailed from the last organized teleconference; (how) shall we proceed?

      They are doing a lot of stuff that we should stay on top of. But are the teleconfs the best way to do that?

      It seems not. John will attempt to sit down with Tim Berners-Lee and talk about the possible ways to go forward.

    10. IPR/prior art repository?

      It is generally agreed — nothing goes up without input from lawyers. John wants to have a plan before talking to lawyers. Notion is: high-noise archive with some list of people being able to put it into a different archive with a lower SNR. Geoff doesn’t think it’s a plan — the moderation task is a high-expertise, high-cost effort. Not clear volunteer effort will do it. How can we pay for it? SteveB suggests having an informal discussion with patent lawyers to see what it is that they would find valuable in such a repository: all the flaming-type, unmoderated messages, or some moderated set? Harald suggests slash-dot type of rating. Henning mentions “bounty quest” stuff.

      Legal check, but the plan could be:

      • high noise repository (unmoderated)
      • run it as a test-bed for 3 months and see what the actual problems are (not the hypothesized ones)

      In the meantime, specific action items are:

      • JohnK will check with IETF lawyers.
      • SteveB & anyone else who can have an informal chat with patent lawyers, find out what would be considered useful
      • Henning to forward info about bounty quest stuff; perhaps they would be interested in what we’re planning to accumulate.

    11. IESG requests for architectural input

      SteveB polled the IESG for input — circulated the e-mail to the IAB. Few responses — but covers a lot of ground!

      Definitely input for potential workshops or other IAB activities, but we didn’t determine any specific action items at this time.

    12. IAB role/responsibilities

      Revisiting our role — we’re not an IESG oversight committee; we’re not a politics body (no, really).

      Need to do architecture. Need to reach across layers/boundaries (which is sometimes hard; goes against grain). Perhaps the IAB could be the provoker of activities like writing up the APPS architecture, getting cross-pollination to happen.

      Harald: what is the picture that makes the pieces of architecture we’re asked to develop hang together?

      Discussion has been interesting. Should follow-up on it; perhaps as an in-person discussion? Ran suggests we could talk about it in London, with a certain amount of pre-planning. London is a long time off, so we’ll attempt to pursue on e-mail, as well.

    13. Workshop planning

      Brian’s proposal: review John’s document (to be circulated within 48hours).

      Leslie’s identifiers proposal: needs to be focussed enough to be non-competitive with the IRTF NameSpace Research Group (NSRG) work, perhaps involve them. SteveB is very concerned about focus — naming discussions always hurt and are very confusing. John volunteers to work with Leslie to get the proposal into a more crisp, focussed state.

      Need to get Erik to tell us what he thinks the state of NSRG and what’s missing.

OLD ACTION ITEMS

  • Harald Alvestrand: Arrange “International Internet” workshop/series of meetings
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Held a meeting April 20/21, 2001 in Montreal. Harald has notes in he-said/she-said format. There is a plan, and he’ll work on it this week/early next week, and circulate notes.
  • Rob Austein and Brian Carpenter: Review and potentially update RFC 1958.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • No change.
  • Leslie Daigle: follow-up Geoff’s .arpa text from WG usage perspective (if different).
    • Done
    • Geoff’s document covers this crisply.
  • Steve Deering: put together a strawman of his view about what the scope of the Internet architecture is/should be in considering IETF work.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • No visible progress yet. A few thoughts circulated on the IAB mailing list, from others.
  • John Klensin, Harald Alvestrand: draft reply to Houlin Zhao.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • In progress — pending finalization of pre-London meetings, etc.
  • Geoff Huston, Steve Deering, and Henning Schulzrinne: Put together a problem statement/charter for the IP provisioning problem, with timeframe for conclusion. Will later determine whether it’s IRTF or IETF material.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Per discussion (below), they will put together a draft problem statement, and from that we’ll see whether it is a charter (IRTF or IETF).
      Discussion:
      Randy: “how to make circuit people think they are provisioning/working with circuits”.
      Fred: “MPLS lets you hide one traffic stream inside another one; lets you do traffic shaping. There’s a set of people deluded into thinking that MPLS is a QOS tool. Needed: how should what traffic go where? Source/destination routing capability.”
      Randy: mentions that there are theoretical->practical papers suggesting that the same can be achieved using IGP techniques. Universal Tunnel Interface, in field testing from Cisco, does the VPN-like stuff without MPLS.
      Geoff: IP over IP provisioning, shortcomings of existing routing protocols.

  • John Klensin: send Brian’s drafted note to IRTF Routing RG Spell out research objectives for inter-domain routing improvements.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • John will send out note.
      Discussion:
      Actors for the action items to pursue had been:
      • Geoff: incorporate research issues in BGP paper
      • Brian: draft note to Routing RG
      • John: send note to Routing RG

      Sally has put up a web page of “known research questions”:

      http://www.aciri.org/floyd/research_questions.html
      . Brian has drafted note to Routing RG. Geoff is working on the BGP paper. All but the note-sending are done.

  • Geoff Huston, Fred Baker Subcommittee to report back to IAB next IETF (London) about progress of the inter-domain routing problem: understanding & proposals within the IETF.
      [pre-May01]
    • Backgrounded
    • To be revisited at London IETF
  • Henning Shulzrinne, Jon Crowcroft See about organizing an ACM/IEEE focussed workshop on the subject of interdomain routing issues
      [pre-May01]
    • Backgrounded
    • To be revisited at London IETF, subsequent
      Discussion:
      Is this effectively done? Jon offers: “I think the BGP tutorial at SIGCOMM 2001 ought to be enough for this imho. See
      http://www.acm.org/sigcomm/sigcomm2001/conference_program.html#T1


      Henning thinks it should be pursued on an on-going basis, and will follow-up. From now on — ping occasionally, don’t need to revisit every call.

  • Geoff Huston Bring the inter-domain routing issue to the IRTF Routing Group, e.g., to get the terminology sorted out.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Geoff is on IRTF mailing list, which has been dormant for some weeks now.
  • Steve Bellovin & Leslie Daigle Draft message to nomcom re. PSO job description. Brian suggests one IAB person and one not.
      [pre-May01]
    • Done
    • Pursuing this lead to the understanding that we have an alternative proposal to put together; see document action re. PSO-PC process.
  • Leslie Daigle, John Klensin: Revise the proposal for a workshop on “Survey of identifiers at all layers”
    • Ongoing
    • A proposal was circulated on IAB mailing list May 1. Need to refine the proposal so that it has a very clear focus for 2 days’ work, doesn’t step on NSRG toes.
  • Henning Schulzrinne: Draft a proposal for a workshop on “Finding stuff”
      [pre-May01]
    • Dropped

NEW ACTION ITEMS

  • John Klensin: Have a chat with Tim Berners-Lee re. ongoing relationship/liaising strategies between IETF/W3C.
      [May01]

  • John Klensin: Discuss proposed IPR repository plan with IETF lawyers
      [May01]

  • Steve Bellovin: informal chat with local patent lawyers & report back re. what they would find useful in an IPR repository
      [May01]

  • Henning Shulzrinne: provide more info on/potentially follow-up “bountyquest” as a model/partner for IETF IPR repository
      [May01]

IAB DRAFTS IN PROGRESS

  • Ran Atkinson, Steve Bellovin: Security considerations, including common security attacks.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Some comments back from Steve Kent. Ran will forward Steve Kent’s email of feedback to Eric Rescorla. Ran and Eric will discuss how to better align the terminology of the “Guidelines on Writing Security Considerations” document with RFC-2828 in order to maximise clarity and minimise confusion.
  • Harald Alvestrand: Directory definitions.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Revised (-02) version published. John has further comments based on using the document; will have to get views reconciled, and we expect another revision to be published. Biggest point of disagreement will be resolved by saying it’s out of scope (explicitly). In a position to move ahead as soon as both Harald & John have time.
  • Steve Bellovin: Applicability statement for security building blocks.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • In progress, nothing to report.
  • Geoff Huston: Architectural Requirements for Inter-Domain Routing in the Internet
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Geoff’s been concentrating on .arpa draft last bit. Adding in research objectives, should be submitted on Friday.
  • Brian Carpenter: Middle boxes: taxonomy and issues
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Revised version (-01) is out and awaiting feedback.
  • Henning Schulzrinne: Telephony Services PSTN interworking draft as an IAB document.
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • Hopefully progress after Friday.
  • Geoff Huston: .arpa policy document
      [pre-May01]
    • Ongoing
    • The document now incorporates all comments from John, Brian, and relayed comments from the IESG (thanks Randy). The changes ‘normalise’ the reference to ip6.arpa, as Scott is of the view that this is a done deal by the time this draft is complete, and soften the ‘authority’ language. Will submit to the drafts editor following IAB call.
  • Leslie Daigle: IETF PSO-PC Process
      [May01]

FUTURE MEETINGS

    Regular teleconference second Tuesday of the month 1500-1700 US East Coast time.

These minutes were prepared by Leslie Daigle; comments should be sent to iab-execd@iab.org. An online copy of these and other minutes are available at http://www.iab.org/documents/IABmins.

Also, visit the IAB Web page at http://www.iab.org.