IAB, IESG, IEEE Executive Committee Minutes of the 25 July 2012 Meeting, Milpitas CA Reported by: Cindy Morgan, Susan Hares, Jon Rosdahl ATTENDEES --------------------------------- - Bernard Aboba, IAB Chair - Gabor Bajko, PAWS chair, 802.11ai vice-chair - Mary Barnes, IAB Executive Director - Stewart Bryant, IESG - Ross Callon, IAB - Gonzalo Camarillo, IESG - Benoit Claise, IESG - Subir Das, 802.21 Chair - Spencer Dawkins, IAB - Ralph Droms, IESG - Donald Eastlake, 802.11 - Lars Eggert, IRTF Chair - Adrian Farrel, IESG - Stephen Farrell, IESG - Don Fedyk, 802.1 invited expert - Norman Finn, 802.1 invited expert - Howard Frazier, 802.3 MIB Task Group chair - Eric Gray, IETF Liaison Manager to IEEE 802.1 - Brian Haberman, IESG (via remote) - Joel Halpern, IAB - Dave Halasz, 802.11 task group chair - Mark Hamilton, 802.11 ARC - Susan Hares, IESG Scribe - Russ Housley, IETF Chair - Tony Jeffree, 802.1 Chair - David Kessens, IAB - Eliot Lear, IETF liaison manager to ITU-T - Barry Leiba, IESG - Roger Marks, 802.16 Chair - Danny McPherson, IAB - Steve Mills, IEEE Standards Association President - Cindy Morgan, IETF Secretariat - Andrew Myles, 802.11 IETF liaison - Paul Nikolich, 802 Chair - Glenn Parsons, 802.1 vice chair, RAC chair, IEEE-SA BOG - Charles Perkins, 802.16 invited expert - Pete Resnick, IESG (via remote) - Dan Romascanu, IETF/IEEE-SA liaison - Jon Rosdahl, 802 Executive Secretary, 802.11 Vice Chair - Robert Sparks, IESG - Dorothy Stanley, 802.11 liaison to IETF - Dave Thaler, IAB - Pat Thaler, 802 Vice-Chair - Geoff Thompson, 802.23 Chair and EC member - Sean Turner, IESG - Paul Unbehagen, 802.1 invited expert - Juan-Carlos Zúñiga, past 802.21 vice chair MINUTES --------------------------------- 1. Introductions, Goals of the meeting The attendees of the meeting all briefly introduced themselves. Pat Thaler outlined the high-level goals of the meeting, noting that focus would be on how to improving collaboration between the IEEE 802 and the IETF. Bernard Aboba noted that in March 2006, RFC 4441 [https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4441/] was published, outlining the relationship between IEEE 802 and the IETF at that time. Bernard suggested that the discussions during this meeting might result in an update to RFC 4441. 2. Introduction to IETF Areas, how IETF works, how decisions are made, how liaisons are managed Slides: "Introduction to the IETF Standards Process," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/IETF-and-IEEE802-Leaders-2012-07.ppt Russ Housley delivered a brief overview of the IETF Standards process, noting that the IETF mission statement is outlined in RFC 3935 [https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc3935/]. Russ explained that the IETF publishes their standards as RFCs, noting that over the last 10 years, 90% of the RFCs have come from the IETF, with the rest coming from other streams, including the Internet Architecture Board (IAB), Internet Research Task Force (IRTF) and Independent Submission Editor (ISE). The IETF uses an open standards process where all interested people are invited to participate, and decisions are made collaboratively. Working Groups (WGs) are the primary mechanism for development of specifications and guidelines in the IETF. Proposed charters are sent to the IETF community for review and comment, as well as to the new- work mailing list, which includes representatives from a number of other SDOs. The IESG approves WG charters with IAB input. Once a WG is chartered, participation is open to all. The WG Chair sets the agenda for meetings, appoints document editors, and determines when rough consensus has been reached. The IETF maintains a number of liaison relationships with other SDOs. The IAB appoints individuals who serve as liaison managers [http://www.ietf.org/liaison/managers.html], and all liaison statements are posted publicly [https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison]. 3. Introduction to IEEE 802 WGs, how IEEE 802 works, how decisions are made, how liaisons are managed Slides: "Introduction to the IEEE," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/ieee-introduction.ppt Pat Thaler delivered a brief overview of the IEEE standards process. Working groups are responsible for developing standards in an area, and may have multiple active projects. The Technical Advisory Group (TAG) is a group of experts on a topic area that crosses working groups. Task groups/task forces are parts of a working group which focus on a particular project or group of projects. A Project Authorization Request (PAR) is the charter for an IEEE standards project. A Call For Interest (CFI) is a brief meeting to outline a topic and determine if there is investigating a possible projects. Study Groups are formed to investigate a project and produce a PAR and Five Criteria (broad market potential, compatibility, distinct identity, technical feasibility, economic feasibility). The question arose as to whether IEEE 802 has a web page where it lists the liaisons to other organizations. At present there is no such web page. 4. Collaborating & managing the relationship Slides: "IETF-IEEE Relationship - RFC 4441 Summary," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/RFC-4441-Summary.pptx Spencer Dawkins summarized the relationship between the IETF and IEEE 802 as outlined in RFC 4441. Key points include: - Liaisons are appointed between the organizations as needed - IETF participants can access IEEE archives - IEEE subscribes to the new-work mailing list and posts PARs - IETF "MIB doctors" review IEEE 802 MIBs - IETF EAP WG reviews IEEE EAP requirements as well as IEEE 802-supplied draft text - IEEE 802 requests new AAA applications; IETF reviews IEEE 802 AAA extensions Bernard Aboba noted that since RFC 4441 was published, some of the IETF MIB work has been transferred to 802.1 and 802.3. Also, the EAP WG has closed and for liaison purposes has been succeeded by the EMU WG. 5. Specific areas where collaboration is needed 5.1. IETF MIF & IEEE 802.21 Slides: "IETF MIF & IEEE 802.21," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/IEEE_802-21_IETF_MIF.PPTX Subir Das presented an overview of proposed work in the IETF MIF WG that may overlap with work done in IEEE 802.21, and made the following recommendations: - IETF MIF should not re-do the work that 802.21 has already done * 802.21 defines a Media Independent Services SAP (API) that provides most of the functionalities that MIF is looking for * 802.21 also defines low level Media Specific SAPs for the underlying access technologies - IETF MIF should identify requirements and make references to 802.21 SAPs where appropriate * If non-existing functionalities are identified both MIF and 802.21 should work together 5.2. IEEE OmniRAN for Heterogeneous Networks Slides: "IEEE OmniRAN for Heterogeneous Networks," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/IEEE_OmniRAN_IETF.pptx Roger Marks presented a proposal for a new IEEE 802 WG to specify access network abstraction layer above IEEE 802 access technologies, noting that the work is related to some IETF WGs (e.g. DMM, MIF, NETEXT), and made the following recommendations: - IEEE 802 OmniRAN can close the gap and tie 802 devices into a family of standards within a heterogeneous IP network supporting evolving IETF standards - IEEE 802 and IETF should… * leverage each other's expertise * plan communications * identify commonalities * link solutions * organize a team to coordinate milestones and progress 5.3. BFD to detect Link Aggregation link failures Slides: "BFD to detect LinkAgg link failures," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/bfd-and-lacp-issue-v2.ppt Norman Finn noted that drafts have been written (but not adopted in IETF WGs) for using BFD to detect Link Aggregation failures. Norman suggested that BFD is at the wrong layer for this, and suggested the following ways to avoid layer violations: - Invent and use a Layer 3 equivalent of LACP that fits routing and BFD - Use Ether OAM; work with 802.1 to invent a way to avoid needless configuration. - Encapsulate BFD below LinkAgg thus giving the world two ways to do exactly the same thing. 5.4. TRILL: Fine-Grained Labeling Slides, "TRILL: Fine-Grained Labeling " http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/Trill-FineGrainedLabel.ppt Paul Unbehagen presented a brief summary of the IETF TRILL WG work on Fine-Grained Labeling which raises concerns about the use of the existing 0x8100 Ethertype. IEEE 802 suggested that new protocols should require new Ethertypes. 5.5. IETF NV03 and IEEE 802.1 DCB Dan Romascanu noted that work in the newly-formed IETF NVO3 WG may overlap with work in the IEEE 802.1 Data Center Bridging Task Group. All parties involved agreed to watch these developments and intervene if necessary. 5.6. Transfer of Ethernet MIB work from IETF to IEEE 802.3 Benoit Claise briefly described the process of transferring the work from now concluded IETF HUBMIB WG to the IEEE 802.3 WG. The issue was discussed in the break with Howard Frazier and Dan Romascanu. Most of the open issues were agreed, and there is also agreement on co- authoring an Informational RFC that will document the MIB transfer process. 6. Impact of virtualization on the architecture of IEEE 802 and IETF protocols Slides: "IEEE Registration Authority: Virtualization & OUI Tiers," http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/RAC_Virtualization_July2012.pdf Glenn Parsons presented a brief overview of the IEEE Registration Authority Committee (RAC) mission, highlighting the current RAC policy on virtualization and asking what virtualization policy would reduce the consumption of EUI-48 addresses. Norman Finn suggested this could be an area of collaboration between the IETF and the IEEE 802. 7. Action items, follow-up methods, plans for next meeting Paul Nikolich and Russ Housley suggested another face-to-face meeting in March 2013, as the IEEE 802 and the IETF will hold back-to-back meetings in Orlando, Florida. In the meantime, the liaison managers will arrange bimonthly conference calls, with the participants for each call depending on the agenda. The following action items were identified: - Spencer Dawkins, Eric Gray, Dan Romascanu, Dorothy Stanley and Pat Thaler agreed to work on an update to RFC 4441. - Howard Frazier and Dan Romascanu agreed to write an Informational RFC that will document the MIB transfer process. - The IEEE 802 agreed to review and update the people they currently have subscribed to the new-work mailing list, and to send PARs to new-work. - The IEEE 802 agreed to add a page to their website listing their current liaison relationships. - The IEEE 802 will look at removing mailing list restrictions that prevent IETF participants from contributing to IEEE 802 work. - The IESG agreed to draft an IESG Statement regarding Ethertype Requests. - The IAB and IESG will suggest a process for providing feedback to the IEEE RAC on Virtualization and OUI Tiers.