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IAB Minutes 2001-06-12

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IAB Teleconference — June 12, 2001, 1500-1700ET


      John Klensin — IAB Chair
      Harald Alvestrand — IETF/IESG Chair
      Rob Austein
      Fred Baker
      Steve Bellovin — Liaison to the IESG
      Randy Bush — Liaison from the IESG
      Brian Carpenter
      Leslie Daigle
      Steve Deering
      Sally Floyd
      Erik Huizer — IRTF Chair, liaison from the IRTF
      Geoff Huston
      Joyce K. Reynolds — Liaison from the RFC Editor
      Henning Schulzrinne
      Lynn St.Amour — Liaison from ISOC


      Ran Atkinson
      Jon Crowcroft



    IAB Teleconference — June 12, 2001, 3pm-5pm ET

    1. Acceptance of minutes of past meetings
      • May 8, 2001 (as circulated June 1, 2001)
    2. Review of Action Items (below)
    3. Review of current IAB documents (below)
    4. Liaison updates
    5. Topics for discussion at our meeting with ITU, London
    6. Workshop planning


    1. Acceptance of minutes of past meetings

    2. Review of Action Items

      See below.

    3. Review of current IAB documents

      See below.

    4. Liaison updates

      Not much doing. The IESG is discussing liaison process, but far from conclusion at this point. Business as usual, turning the crank.

      Erik approached a couple of RRG people and has received 0 responses on his question about the state of the group. Fred, as RRG participant, says there’s not much traffic.

      Erik is planning to step down as IRTF chair in September (end of his initial 2-year term). Suggestion is: bring in follow-up chair as co-chair until September as part of the hand-off process. Looking for suggestions for replacement (IAB-like experience, good logistical planning skills, overview of IETF/IAB working on). Send suggestions to Erik this week.

      PSO General Assembly is coming up next month — in conjunction with the ETSI TIPHON meeting in Sophia Antipolis. There is a conference call next week, should shape up some of the details re. the ICANN Board appoinment process for this year.

      <No update>.

      ISOC finished Board meeting prior to INET meeting. Have reaffirmed that support of the IETF is at the heart of activities, even as they drive into carving out a new/evolved role.

      Signed revised RFC editor contract.

      Elections — worked through some discovered discrepencies. One electee resigned. This left a casual vacancy and Latif Ladid was appointed, who had the next largest number of votes. Brian Carpenter was overwhelmingly reelected as chair.

      ISOC nomcom will be formed over the summer for next year’s Board candidates. Any ISOC member in good standing may participate. Send a note to Lynn or Brian and it will be forwarded to the nomcom chair.

      Glenn Kovak has suggested, and the idea is being refined, that INET might bring into its circle some days of “executive conference” — the kinds of people that wind up being hangers-on at IETF — giving tutorial-like updates on the state-of-play in standards development. As a related thought, perhaps an all-day presentation on IDN. Importance of focus: getting our message out in coherent form to a wider audience.

      Other News from Afield
      ICANN meeting two weeks ago. By ICANN standards, it was a productive meeting. Perhaps it’s time to revisit, “regularize” our protocol assignment processes/services framework. E.g., “IANA Considerations” -> “Protocol Assignment Considerations” in RFCs, directing appropriate ones to ICANN.

    5. Topics for discussion at our meeting with ITU, London

      The Agenda Item: how we can best interface and work with the ITU-T.

      Overall: we have mixed results working with the ITU. Some of the technical collaborations have been successful, usually when it’s just technical (no politics), and the same people are in both sets of meetings (ITU rep and IETF participation).

    6. Workshop planning

      At this point, we are unlikely to be able to do a workshop before end of year. We haven’t found a key technical area in which we could get sufficient traction. May have smaller ones like the Internationalized one, and will keep working on developing a proposal for the next large one.


  • Harald Alvestrand: Arrange “International Internet” workshop/series of meetings

        Held a meeting April 20/21, 2001 in Montreal. Harald has notes in he-said/she-said format. There is a plan, and he’ll work on it this week/early next week, and circulate notes.

        Participants agreed in Montreal that we had basic documents. Would like to have another meeting, possibly in Beijing in September with documents in a semi-final shape. Need to get this sorted in the next short while so that docs will be revised, and preparations can be done for the meeting.

  • Rob Austein and Brian Carpenter: Review and potentially update RFC 1958.

        To be followed up by Brian after he revises the middlebox draft.
  • Steve Deering: put together a strawman of his view about what the scope of the Internet architecture is/should be in considering IETF work.

        Notes have been circulated for consideration. Discuss online until next call, and then decide if or how to pursue.
  • John Klensin, Harald Alvestrand: draft reply to Houlin Zhao.

        Note sent, meeting set for Sunday of IETF week in London.
  • Geoff Huston, Steve Deering, and Henning Schulzrinne: Put together a problem statement/charter for the IP provisioning problem, with timeframe for conclusion. Will later determine whether it’s IRTF or IETF material.

        Unchanged: Per discussion (below), they will put together a draft problem statement, and from that we’ll see whether it is a charter (IRTF or IETF).

        Randy: “how to make circuit people think they are provisioning/working with circuits”.
        Fred: “MPLS lets you hide one traffic stream inside another one; lets you do traffic shaping. There’s a set of people deluded into thinking that MPLS is a QOS tool. Needed: how should what traffic go where? Source/destination routing capability.”
        Randy: mentions that there are theoretical->practical papers suggesting that the same can be achieved using IGP techniques. Universal Tunnel Interface, in field testing from Cisco, does the VPN-like stuff without MPLS.
        Geoff: IP over IP provisioning, shortcomings of existing routing protocols.

  • John Klensin: send Brian’s drafted note to IRTF Routing RG Spell out research objectives for inter-domain routing improvements.

        John will do it within the next hour. It had fallen off the table.
  • Geoff Huston, Fred Baker Subcommittee to report back to IAB next IETF (London) about progress of the inter-domain routing problem: understanding & proposals within the IETF.

        To be revisited at London IETF
  • Henning Shulzrinne, Jon Crowcroft See about organizing an ACM/IEEE focussed workshop on the subject of interdomain routing issues

        To be revisited at London IETF, subsequent
  • Geoff Huston Bring the inter-domain routing issue to the IRTF Routing Group, e.g., to get the terminology sorted out.

        Unchanged: Geoff is on IRTF mailing list, which has been dormant for some weeks now.
  • Leslie Daigle, John Klensin: Revise the proposal for a workshop on “Survey of identifiers at all layers”

        Unchanged: A proposal was circulated on IAB mailing list May 1. Need to refine the proposal so that it has a very clear focus for 2 days’ work, doesn’t step on IRTF Namespace Research Group (NSRG) toes.
  • John Klensin: Have a chat with Tim Berners-Lee re. ongoing relationship/liaising strategies between IETF/W3C.

        John has had no response from trying to call him. Need to keep pinging from all directions. Need to get this sorted out, as our APPs area wants to liaise with them more, not less. Need to get engineers talking to engineers, which is happening on one-off cases, and need to make sure that keeps happening.
  • John Klensin: Discuss proposed IPR repository plan with IETF lawyers

        Expect to hear back by the end of the week.
  • Steve Bellovin: informal chat with local patent lawyers & report back re. what they would find useful in an IPR repository

  • Henning Shulzrinne: provide more info on/potentially follow-up “bountyquest” as a model/partner for IETF IPR repository

        Some pointers forwarded to IAB mailing list.


  • John Klensin, Geoff Huston: float proposal for revised protocol assignment framework.


  • Ran Atkinson, Steve Bellovin: Security considerations, including common security attacks.

        Some comments received from Steve Kent. Ran forwarded those comments to Eric Rescorla last month. Steve Bellovin will discuss the comments with Eric in more detail in order to figure out how best to proceed.

        Not likely to happen by the next call. SteveB will be away from e-mail for 2.5 weeks between now and next call.

  • Harald Alvestrand: Directory definitions.

        Revised (-02) version published. John has further comments based on using the document; will have to get views reconciled, and we expect another revision to be published. Biggest point of disagreement will be resolved by saying it’s out of scope (explicitly). In a position to move ahead as soon as both Harald & John have time.
  • Steve Bellovin: Applicability statement for security building blocks.
  • Geoff Huston: Architectural Requirements for Inter-Domain Routing in the Internet
  • Brian Carpenter: Middle boxes: taxonomy and issues
  • Henning Schulzrinne: Telephony Services PSTN interworking draft as an IAB document.

  • Geoff Huston: .arpa policy document
  • Leslie Daigle: IETF PSO-PC Process

        Have posted it to the POISSON working group mailing list, where it was put to Working Group last call. There is some discussion about whether there is in fact consensus on the proposal. In discussing with previous NomCom chairs, there appears to be a split in opinion as to whether it is (or is not) usefully within the role of the NomCom to select potential candidates for ICANN Board members — arguments “for” include that it is an open, community process; arguments “against” include the fact that it is outside the specific task of selecting candidates for functions the NomCom members are immediately familiar with and it doesn’t have the same “non-self-perpetuating” requirement that IESG/IAB apointments do.

        Note that this is offered as an adjunct to RFC2727 (BCP 10 — “IESG/IAB Selection & Recall”) insofar as it is not about IAB/IESG selection, which is the subject of BCP 10. It is an additional function for the NomCom.

        Will summarize issues to NomCom chairs (_all_ the previous ones) and Scott Bradner as VP Standards, and ask them to emit a recommendation. Subject to success, we will revise the document including the editorial contributions offered in the POISSON last call and go from there.


    Regular teleconference second Tuesday of the month 1500-1700 US East Coast time.

These minutes were prepared by Leslie Daigle; comments should be sent to An online copy of these and other minutes are available at

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