Minutes
IAB Teleconference
May 11, 2005
1. Rollcall, Agenda Bash and Previous Minutes
1.1 Agenda
- Rollcall, Agenda Bash and Previous Minutes
- Action List Review
- Document Status Review
- Liaison Reports
- Update from iab-idn ad hoc committee
- ICANN BoT liaison
- IPv6 ad hoc committee
- IESG concerns regarding IETF RFC processing
- Retreat planning
- Next tech chat — topic finalization
- AOB
1.2 Attendance
Leslie Daigle — IAB Chair
Bernard Aboba
Loa Andersson
Brian Carpenter — IETF Chair
Rich Draves — IAB Executive Director
Aaron Falk — IRTF Chair
Bob Hinden
Kurtis Lindqvist
David Meyer
Pekka Nikander
Pete Resnick
Joyce K. Reynolds — Liaison from the RFC Editor
Jonathan Rosenberg
Bert Wijnen — Liaison from the IESG
Lixia Zhang
Absent
Patrik Fältström
Eric Rescorla
Lynn St. Amour — Liaison from ISOC
1.3 Previous Minutes
April 13 minutes accepted with one revision: Kurtis has primary responsibility for the “DNS Ops TLD Operation” action.
2. Review of Action Items
(See Appendix A)
3. Review of Documents
(See Appendix B)
4. Liaison Reports
The following Liaison Reports were submitted to the IAB.
ISOC
Lynn St. Amour
Very little to report other than:
- ISOC supported various IAOC activities
- the WSIS/WGIG debates continue with a series of regional preparatory meetings. ISOC attends these meetings (and is often a panelist). The RIR’s, various individuals from the root server community, ICANN, etc. also attend. The WGIG Paper on Internet Governance will be published mid-June.
RFC Editor
Joyce Reynolds
- Nothing to report.
IRTF
Aaron Falk
(The IAB requested that Aaron forward this report to the IESG.)
Transition
The transition from outgoing to incoming IRTF chairs is pretty much complete. The IRTF website and a few mailing lists have been moved from ICIR to ISI. I’m working on a slight redesign of the website. I’m having get-to-know-you phone conferences with many of the RG chairs (especially the ones who don’t go to IETF).
Resources
The secretariat has indicated that they have insufficient resources to host IRTF mailing lists, so I’m considering moving the irtf.org mailing lists to ISI so that this does become not an impediment to new work. This highlights the issue of resources for the IRTF, which have not been directly addressed by the IASA activities, AFAICT. Near term resource issues are obtaining rooms at IETF meetings and the IT support. Some initial discussions with the IAB and IETF chairs are underway.
New Work
Several research topics have been suggested for new IRTF activities. Many of these have no further description and I plan to followup with the instigators to at least get a few paragraphs of explanation.
- congestion control research group
- overlay networks, I3 networks
- designing protocols to survive tussle
- enroll — ad-hoc authorization bindings
- interactions between congestion control and ID/locator split
- distributed hash tables
- privacy: comprehensively, through the stack
- future of indirection & rendezvous, i.e. time for a DNS follow-on?
I’m scheduling a call together with Mark Handley to discuss the status of the Congestion Control Research Group proposed charter. My understanding is the last thing that happened was review by the Transport Area Directors and some requested changes. There appears to be a lot of interest behind this effort.
Attracting participation
Expanding the IRTF will require more participation. This will be more important as the proposals for new IRTF activities start to come from the IAB rather than the researchers themselves. These proposals need to be cast in language that is appealing to researchers (which may be different than the natural way for folks familiar with the IETF to describe them), so it is clear there are interesting problems in scope. Also, to draw in participants it will be necessary to publicize the new efforts. Finally, there needs to be some reward for participating in IRTF collaborative efforts, specifically RG consensus RFCs. (The lack of peer-review for RFCs reduces their standing in the academic world.)
Here are some proposals under consideration:
- Conduct peer review on some IRTF documents. Peer-reviewed IRTF documents would have enhanced standing in the academic world, although this could take some time.
- Add an IRTF imprimatur (or brand) to some documents. This would allow them to more easily be distinguished from RFCs which were from individuals.
- Create an IRTF publication track in an academic journal. The editor of ACM CCR has agreed to try this approach.
- Create a workshop to highlight areas which need attention. There are many variations which might be tried here: single topic workshops, workshops on only new/proposed topics, or workshops in which all the existing research groups have some participation.
Reporting
Publicizing the work of the IRTF is part of raising awareness of the activities there. We are planning to forward status reports to the (new) irtf-announce mail list and possibly post them on the website, once the update is complete.
I am also discussing with the RG chairs the best way to report RG progress and issues. There is general unhappiness with submitting monthly reports as this too frequent for the level of activity in the groups. Some ideas under discussion include more substantive reports on a less frequent basis (quarterly, per-IETF, annually). Should this happen the RG reports for the IAB minutes would diminish although exceptional issues would still be reported as they come up.
(See Appendix C for individual IRTF Research Group Reports.)
IESG
Bert Wijnen
- Discussion (unhappyness) with RFC-Editor copy-editing
- IESG response to ISD proposals in NewTrk WG
Discussion continues on NewTrk list - Continued TRILL, SLRRP and RBRIDGE chartering discussions
- Discussion on how to possibly improve efficiency and effectiveness of WG sessions at IETF meetings
- Discussion on how to better review new WG charters and to get a better (documented) decision process for that.
- Some of above was from IESG retreat. IESG intends to send a list of more detailed notes from retreat to the IETF community.
GGF
Brian Carpenter
Brian will attend the next GGF (Global Grid Forum) meeting.
ATM Forum
Andrew Malis
The ATM Forum is in the process of completing its merger with the MPLS & Frame Relay Alliance. The merger has been approved by the membership of both of the parent organizations, and is expected to close by the end of May. The merged organization will be known as the MFA Forum. The MFA Forum will be inheriting all technical work items and liaison relationships from the parent organizations, and will be most closely working with the MPLS, PWE3, CCAMP, L2VPN, and L3VPN working groups.
(The IAB notes that when the merger is complete, it will review liaison roles and appointments.)
OMA
Dean Willis
As I understand it, OMA amended their IPR policy to require OMA members to license IPR needed to implement OMA specifications under RAND to non-members of OMA in addition to members of OMA, whereas the previous policy required licensing only to members of OMA.
(See http://www.iab.org/liaisons/oma/2005-04.html for the full report.)
5. Update from iab-idn ad hoc committee
Missing Patrik, so this agenda item was skipped.
6. ICANN BoT liaison
IAB discussion identified a couple of potential candidates with a broad range of knowledge and experience in IETF-ICANN related technical topics, and Leslie will explore their availability further. Failing that, more thought will be required.
7. IPv6 ad hoc committee
Leslie reports that there is drafty text for a recharter of the group. The original mission of this committee was to have some RIR participation, to consider topics like HD ratio and its application to address space allocation. Now time to recharter this committee. The group is ad-hoc, informal, advisory (like a directorate). We want to ensure it stays technical, not political. Purpose of the charter is to act as an agreement between IAB and the group re. its objectives. Discussion of representation from NANOG, various RIRs. Expect revised charter in email by mid next week.
8. IESG concerns regarding IETF RFC processing
Issues raised are lack of visibility into RFC Editor state, the copy-editing, excessive author changes in AUTH48. Tension between a public process to consider this and urgency of doing something. IESG feels copy-editing situation is unsatisfactory but not clear if wider community would agree. Perhaps make progress more quickly by going to WG chairs for feedback? Leslie and Brian to follow up on community discussion. IETF Chair asks the RFC Editor liaison to consider strengthening the AUTH48 instructions.
9. Retreat planning
Two important things to do at the retreat. First discuss technical issues. Second have a concrete idea of how people can participate. Annual timeline of IAB activities should be prepared in advance for discussion at retreat. June 8 telechat will need to be cancelled and we will hold business meeting at the retreat. Jonathan volunteers to produce slideware in advance on his thoughts regarding the IAB’s operation. Leslie will draft the annual timeline and also put together some notes from the OPES considerations document example.
Update on logistics – Almost all attendees confirmed – Eric Rescorla still uncertain. Allison Mankin will substitute for Brian/Bert. We will almost certainly be at the Hilton Dulles; Jonathan is negotiating a discounted rate. Working on meeting room.
10. Next tech chat — topic finalization
Do we have a volunteer to lead NGN discussion? Dave Meyer “volunteers”. We will use the Internet2 conf call bridge. Jonathan volunteered to help folks use SIP to connect. Folks asked about Mac & Linux SIP clients.
11. AOB
AOB = Any Other Business
GSC = Global Standards Conference
Scott Bradner has attended in the past. Should we continue to participate? If so, who should go? In Sophia-Antipoles, France August 28 – Sep 2. Leslie will ask for the agenda because the duration seems excessive. Brian might attend if it were a day.
Appendix A
IAB Actions
Response to Doug Barton’s regarding IPv6 address space allocation
Kurtis Lindqvist
Initiated: April 2005
Goal: Draft a list of issues so the IAB can respond to Doug Barton’s note to IANA regarding IPv6 address space allocation.
Status: Done
IAB Web Site
Rich Draves
Initiated: April 2005
Goal: Review and update the web site, including the “news of the month” and disguising email addresses.
Status: Added old minutes, updated “current announcements”, disguised email addresses. Still need to update about/history.html, remove links to potaroo.net.
IAB Retreat Arrangements
Jonathan Rosenberg
Initiated: April 2005
Goal: Arrange meeting space, hotel rooms, etc for the IAB retreat, June 9/10 near IAD.
Status: Attendance confirmed, working on hotel reservation.
IDN Ad Hoc
Patrik Fältström
Initiated: March 2005
Goal: Create a mailing list and initiate discussion for IAB ad hoc committee on Internationalized Domain Names.
Status: No report, given Patrik’s absence.
ICANN BoT Liaison
Leslie Daigle
Initiated: March 2005
Goal: Per discussion with John Klensin — we need to find a new liaison.
Status: Needs discussion; Leslie has updated info.
ICANN TLG Liaison
Leslie Daigle
Initiated: March 2005
Goal: Inform ICANN that we are not renewing a liaison to the ICANN TLG
Status: No objections from John Klensin, Leslie still needs to inform.
IAB Messaging Workshop
Pete Resnick
Initiated: April 2004
Goal: Issue workshop report and create archive of workshop material.
Status: 00 draft is not quite done, will be done today.
IPv6 Policies
IPv6AD Hoc Advisory Committee
Initiated: May 2004
Goal: Passed a set of current IPv6 issues to the ad-hoc IAB advisory committee on IPv6 addressing issues: ip6.int deprecation, hd-ratio considerations, minimum IANA IPv6 allocation unit, IANA IPv6 registry terminology and format
Status: Leslie will work with Thomas.
DNS Ops TLD Operation
Kurtis Lindqvist, Dave Meyer, Lixia Zhang
Initiated: September 2004
Goal: DNSOPS WG activity on TLD operational considerations. Offer of editorial assistance in any WG document to be made to the WG.
Status: Kurtis has drafted some text, circulating to Dave & Lixia.
IPv6 Multi-Address Considerations
Bob Hinden
Initiated: September 2004
Goal: Document considerations relating to address selection procedures and potential side effects in a multi-address- ing environment with scoped and global addresses
Status: No progress.
Tech Chat Schedule
Leslie Daigle, Loa Andersson, Pekka Nikander
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Create tech chat schedule, topic proposals due from Loa and Pekka
Status: Loa says he wants to come up with some architecture for MPLS, CCAMP, PWE3, PCE, BFD, L1VPN, L2VPN, L3VPN and IPFRR. Pekka says: I have started to prepare a draft about the architectural interconnections between mobility, addressing, and routing, mostly from an IP point of view but partially also more generically. The latter part might be applicable, for example, for TRILL. Alex has promised to review the draft once I’ve got the first version ready. Current estimate for the first version is May 18, but I could ship a partial version on May 11 if desired.
Architectural Issues
Pekka Nikander
Initiated: April 2005
Goal: Revise/maintain the list of architectural issues on the IAB web pages. These can also be discussed at the IAB retreat and guide future tech chat topic selection.
Status: I have started to collect material, but haven’t been able to start analysis on the material yet.
RFC Editor Copyright
Leslie Daigle
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Pass RFC Editor Copyright provisions to IETF legal counsel for review with respect to permissions relating to protection of IETF interests, integrity of the IETF Standards Track documents for derivative works and relation to any third party interests in the material published by the RFC Editor.
Status: Brian took the action and poked counsel; we are waiting for answer.
Research Note document proposal
Aaron Falk
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Convene a group consisting of Vern Paxson, Brian Carpenter, Aaron Falk, and Leslie Daigle, assisted by Sally Floyd and Mark Handley to document this proposal and highlight related considerations for the IAB.
Status: No progress. Plan to re-start activity this month.
ISOC BoT Selection
Rich Draves, Leslie Daigle
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Advise the ISOC elections committee chair of our selection. Before the next round, review the RFC 3677 process.
Status: ISOC elections committee chair has been advised.
Proposed Congestion Control RG
Aaron Falk
Initiated: January 2005
Goal: Consult with ADs on the potential role for such a RG
Status: Scheduling a call with Mark Handley to review comments on charter from Transport ADs. Need to circulate revised charter to IAB. Considering co-chairs for the RG. Question whether the RG could look at L2 (eg 802.11) congestion control.
Appendix B
Documents
A survey of Authentication Mechanisms
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-auth-mech-04.txt
Eric Rescorla
Initiated: April 2002
Status: Revision (current draft has expired)
Current: Revise as per comments from IETF call. Eric says no recent progress.
Next step: RFC Submission
Internationalization Considerations
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-char-rep-02.txt
Leslie Daigle
Initiated: November 2002
Status: Revision (current draft has expired)
Current action: Part of IDN workshop action. Leslie says we can expect progress soon. May need to change name to reflect increased scope.
Secure Autoconfiguration in IPv6
Bernard Aboba
Initiated: March 2003
Status: Revision
Current action: Propose to rework current summary as a framework description. Note original problem statement of the range of choices of discovery mechanisms. Bernard notes this was the topic of the January techchat. Bernard wrote up ICOS BOF summary. Bernard is working with Russ Housley on this. No progress on this document but progress with Russ on documenting usage of EAP.
Next step: IETF Review
Protocol Models
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-model-03.txt
Eric Rescorla
Initiated: May 2003
Status: RFC Editor
Current action: Submitted to RFC Editor on February 28, in queue.
Internet Identities
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-identities-02.txt
Patrik Fältström, Leslie Daigle
Initiated: July 2003
Status: IETF Review
Current action: Leslie to complete review. Leslie believes the document focus is not clear and she will work with the authors. Patrik says Geoff has the editor token; Patrik is willing to take IAB responsibility for the document from Geoff, and get XML source. Dave Meyer has comments. Leslie wants to be cc’d on all comments on this document.
Next step: IETF Call
DOS Attacks
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-dos-02.txt
Eric Rescorla
Initiated: September 2003
Status: Revision (current draft has expired)
Current action: Incorporate review comments from Bernard and Geoff into -02 version. Maintain current scope of consideration. Eric will pickup from Mark.
Untangling Activeware
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-nat-traversal-considerations-00.txt
Jonathan Rosenberg
Initiated: April 2004
Status: Revision
Current action: Discussed with BEHAVE WG at IETF62. Jonathan says substantial revision needed to make it more prescriptive, no progress since IETF meeting. Jonathan will contact IESG to ask what guidance they want in the document. Jonathan will finish revision prior to Paris.
Top Level Domain Issues
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-dns-assumptions-02.txt
Jonathan Rosenberg
Initiated: May 2004
Status: IETF review
Current action: Pekka sent comments. Jonathan will revise intro, add section discussing target audience.
Design Choices When Expanding DNS
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-dns-choices-01.txt
Patrik Fältström
Initiated: June 2004
Status: Review
Current: IETF review. Patrik says new draft will be ready in a few days.
Next step: Produce -02 revision
Architectural Implications of Link Layer Indications
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-link-indications-01.txt
Bernard Aboba
Initiated: June 2004
Status: IETF review
Current action: Bernard will incorporate comments from IEEE and will send out new version this week.
Next step: IETF Call.
IAOC Selection Procedure
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-iesg-iaoc-selection-00.txt
Bert Wijnen
Initiated: December 2004
Status: Review
Current action: Revise after initial selection process completed. Bert says Geoff is willing to work on it. Possible issues with current process: dearth of candidates (is this fixable?), question of whether IAB/IESG members are eligible. One week comment period for this document.
IRTF Review
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-irtf-00.txt
Leslie Daigle, Aaron Falk
Initiated: December 2004
Status: Review
Current action: One further revision (-01) pending. Leslie has pinged Sally (believed to have a bunch of cleanups), no response yet. Dave Meyer has comments. IAB will discuss in its retreat.
Next step: IETF Call
Appendix C
IRTF Research Group Reports
Anti-Spam Research Group (ASRG)
It’s been a quiet couple of months. The IRR subgroup finally got a draft of the reputation scheme that was presented at IETF 61. The abuse reporting subgroup seems poised to converge on a draft written by ex-co-chair Yakov Shafranovich.
The main ASRG list continues to serve its function where people drop in, tell us about their wonderful new spam solution, and we inevitably break the bad news that it’s not new and it’s known not to work.
Crypto Forum Research Group (CFRG)
no report
Delay Tolerant Networking Research Group (DTNRG)
no report
End-to-End Research Group (E2ERG)
no report
Host Identity Payload Research Group (HIPRG)
The main event in the RG was changing a co-chair, as Pekka Nikander has resigned due to new IAB duties. The following research related activities were discussed on the RG mailing list.
- a new version of Ericsson HIP code release is available and test server installed by them. The test server supports IPv4 and v6 and has its HIT in DNS AAAA entries.
- Telecom Italia performed comparative testing of three existing HIP implementations. The draft report has been discussed among implementors.
- There was an announcement from Denmark that they have 3 students looking at HIP
- Work on legacy NAT traversal is commencing (by hiring a student to do it over summer). Additionally, a paper on HIP NAT registration by Tschofenig et al. accepted at ACISP’05 http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/gurtov/papers/midbox.pdf
- A workshop on HIP is proposed in Daghstul, Germany by Eggert et al in 2006.
Internet Measurement Research Group (IMRG)
IMRG has been attempting to determine if there is further work to do within the confines of the RG or whether the RG should be closed. Several ideas have been presented and we’re currently attempting to gauge the energy level behind these ideas.
Mobility Optimization Research Group (MOBOPTS)
There was no activity on the RG alias. However, there is discussion about the RG in a related IETF WG MIPSHOP.
- one of the RG documents “Bootstrapping a Handover Key from SEND” is being considered as a document of interest to the MIPSHOP WG.
- there is discussion of a topic on conveying link characteristics from a Mobile Node to its correspondent using Mobility signaling. While this signaling appears feasible, the implications (e.g., end-to-end transport behavior) are not well understood. This might become a topic of interest to the RG.
Network Management Research Group (NMRG)
Below is the report for the NMRG. Something that is not visible in the report is that several NMRG folks have jointly written EU project proposals to fund more management related work. I have no idea whether we are going to be successful but I thought you might want to know that activities such as these are resulting from the NMRG effort, even though they are not publicly visible.
NMRG report for March 2005:
- Discussion continued on VoIP management issues. The next NMRG workshop will be held before the IETF in Paris. The meeting will be hosted by the network management research group at INRIA in Nancy.
- Only little little progress has been made so far to condense the various arguments exchanged on the mailing list related to VoIP management into a document.
NMRG report for April 2005:
- Some people involved in the NMRG will attend the ITU/IETF meeting in Geneva since ITU’s NGN initiative is strongly related to one of our current interests.
- Work towards a management traffic analysis slowly progresses. IUB has reported work on anonymization to the NMRG for discussion and feedback.
Peer-to-Peer Research Group (P2PRG)
We had a semi-NO-OP with respect to activity for March and April:
- The group has responded to several requests for pointers to papers on various P2P research topics
- We are now in the planning stage for a RG meeting in Paris the first week of August at the IETF meeting in Paris.
Routing Research Group (RRG)
The RG mailing list has been broken for at least several weeks. No luck resurrecting the list yet. I am trying to get the list of subscribers from the old list holder. Not having much luck with that either. Will try once more and then will create a new list on ietf.org and put out a call.
The RG has pretty low energy. Things do go on in the background, but not on a monthly reporting scale – maybe will have things to report on a 3 monthly scale.
Also, just got a offer of some work on a RRG draft on:
It occurs to me that over the last decade or so while we’ve been having conversations about routing technology, we’ve managed to create a significant bit of legacy in terminology and thought. Unfortunately, not all of it is implemented yet so there’s a finite risk that after a few of us leave the industry/job market/interactive domain, some of that knowledge would be lost.
I’d like to propose to contribute an RFC that simply documents and codifies the terminology and thinking that we have had to this point.
One of the closed group on algorithms is working but on a slower, research sort of, pace – though its list is quiet as well. So, am now trying to think through one more push to get this group revitalized.
These minutes were prepared by Rich Draves. Any comments should be sent to
iab-execd@iab.org. An online copy of these and other minutes is available at: http://www.iab.org/documents/iabmins/
The IAB Web page is at http://www.iab.org