Minutes
IAB Teleconference

July 13, 2005

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1. Rollcall, Agenda Bash and Previous Minutes

1.1 Agenda

1. Rollcall, Agenda Bash and Previous Minutes
2. Review of Action Items
3. Review of Documents
4. Liaison Reports
5. IAB teleconference time(s)
6. ISOC BoT appointment process document
7. IAB workplan — review and refinement
8. IAB work tools — review and refinement
9. Poll for current thoughts on burning (tech) issues
10. Tech Chats — purpose, planning, topics
11. Preparation for IETF63/IAB agenda planning
12. IEEE 802 relationship paper

1.2 Attendance

Leslie Daigle — IAB Chair
Bernard Aboba
Loa Andersson
Brian Carpenter — IETF Chair
Rich Draves — IAB Executive Director
Aaron Falk — IRTF Chair
Bob Hinden
David Meyer
Pete Resnick
Joyce K. Reynolds — Liaison from the RFC Editor
Jonathan Rosenberg
Bert Wijnen — Liaison from the IESG

Absent
Patrik Fältström
Kurtis Lindqvist
Pekka Nikander
Eric Rescorla
Lynn St. Amour — Liaison from ISOC
Lixia Zhang

1.3 Previous Minutes

Minutes from June are accepted.

2. Review of Action Items

(See Appendix A)

3. Review of Documents

(See Appendix B)

4. Liaison Reports

The following Liaison Reports were submitted to the IAB.

ISOC

Lynn St. Amour

1. ISOC’s annual Board of Trustee elections is now complete with the following people being elected: (all are three-year terms).

   IETF –
   Fred Baker (returned to serve a 2nd term)

   From ISOC Organization Members –
   Daniel Karrenberg
   Glenn Ricart (returned to serve a 2nd term)

   From ISOC Chapters –
   Veni Markovski (returned to serve a 2nd term)

2. ISOC’s next Board meeting is scheduled immediately following the IETF and is open. The full agenda will be published on our home page and key sections are highlighted below. It will be held at the:

   Le Meridien Etoile
   81 Boulevard Gouvion Saint-Cyr
   Paris

   From:

   Friday – 13:00 – 18:00
   Saturday – 8:00 – 12:30
   Note Friday: 15:30 – 16:30 IETF Updates

   • IETF Update = B. Carpenter
   • IAB Update – L. Daigle
   • IASA Update and Review – R. Pelletier

RFC Editor

Joyce Reynolds

• Ray Pelletier visited the RFC Editor staff at ISI July 6-7, 2005.
• The RFC Editor worked with Bill Fenner on XML –> RFC issues in response to community questions and critiques.

IRTF

Aaron Falk

Reminder: RG updates will happen after IETF

Accomplishments:

• Attended workshop on behalf of IAB “Steps for Reducing Unwanted Traffic on the Internet” (SRUTI) sponsored by USENIX. Report forthcoming. Short version: mostly point fixes ignoring attacker next steps (i.e., evading the fixes); the exceptions were interesting although even the most interesting talks only made attacks harder, rather than preclude them. Standout talk: discussion of the risk of VoIP spam — imagine unsolicited phone calls arriving with the frequency and anonymity of spam email.

In progress:

• FYI: P2PRG, DTNRG, HIPRG, MOBOPTS all plan to meet during the Paris IETF.

  NMRG is meeting in Nancy, France on 7/30-31

• Internet Congestion Control Research Group (ICCRG): Held a call with Mark Handley to address charter comments from a Transport AD (Allison).

  Identified a good candidate co-chair to lead the group with Mark Handley. Travel has prevented approaching him yet, but expect that to happen within the next 2 weeks. Planning to have Mark give a high level talk on ICCRG goals/objectives at Paris IETF plenary, more detailed talk at TSVWG meeting, first RG meeting at SIGCOMM. I just realized that the IAB has not yet seen the charter. I just requested the most recent rev from Mark and will forward ASAP.

• Transport Models Research Group (TMRG): Sally Floyd has circulated a draft charter by the E2E-interest list and is collecting feedback from the Transport ADs. After that, it will go to the IAB list. Plan to have this RG in place before the Paris IETF.

• Article for CCR on how the research community should support IRTF activities to have impact on the Internet. (still very rough) Plan to submit for Fall issue.

• IRTF web redesign: in Henrik’s hands, promised in time for Paris.

Plans:

• IRTF Code of Conduct/Note Well/IPR policy

IESG

Bert Wijnen

The most important thing to mention is probably that the IESG received an appeal on the approval of draft-ietf-lemonade-mms-mapping-04.txt as a Proposed Standard.

The IESG is close to sending a response on that but needs a little bit more time.

GGF

Brian Carpenter

(See
http://www.iab.org/liaisons/ggf/2005-07-ggf.html)

IEEE 802

Bernard Aboba

(See http://www.iab.org/liaisons/ieee/2005-07-ieee802-liaison-report.html)

5. IAB teleconference time(s)

The IAB discussed moving its standing teleconference time to better accommodate participants from the US-PT time zone. The IAB tentatively decided to move one hour later, so business calls will be the 2nd Wednesday of every month at 8am US-PT and technical chats will be the 4th Wednesday of every month at 8am US-PT. Rich will confirm this with the mailing list.

The IAB decided to conduct its next business meeting in Paris at IETF instead of August 10.

6. ISOC BoT appointment process document

The IAB discussed some issues with the ISOC BoT appointment process. Should the IAB appoint or should the NomCom do it? The traditional NomCom role has already changed – now it selects two IAOC members. When, if ever, is it appropriate to have people serve in multiple roles? For example, on both the IAB and ISOC BoT. The current NomCom chair has also requested guidance wrt ISOC/IETF conflicts of interest in its selections.

The IAB decided that a list of issues should be circulated to IAB/IESG/IAOC. Leslie volunteered to take this action item. If the document requires updating, it will be standard process for it to go to the IETF for discussion, minimally in a Last Call for the BCP; discussion in plenary may be needed.

7. IAB workplan — review and refinement

The IAB discussed three topics as potential focuses this coming year: IPv6, Internet Architecture, and Unwanted Network Traffic. The IAB reviewed its current activities to see how they might fit these topics. The IAB agreed to continue to refine this.

8. IAB work tools — review and refinement

The IAB discussed its processes and tools for tackling issues. The IAB agreed that assessing the impact or gauging the outcome of its work is important. One possibility is to have a long-range action (one or three years) after a document is published, to have a short discussion of the document’s impact, focusing on what the IAB did right/wrong with the document. Rich volunteered to take the action of selecting several documents to give this a try in Paris, perhaps at the joint IAB/IESG meeting on Sunday.

9. Poll for current thoughts on burning (tech) issues

Loa brought up the effect on MPLS architecture caused by a series of smaller changes. For example, proposals to change how labels are allocated. Another thing is PWE3 developments – it is moving into multi-hop pseudo-wires.

Dave brought up dissatisfaction with IPv6 in some quarters. These people think that IPv6 will not solve the scalability issues with internet routing. The IAB agreed that these scalability issues are still research problems. The IAB agreed that more clear communication regarding IPv6 is needed.

Jonathan brought up privacy. The IAB noted that Pekka is organizing a BOF on privacy. Jonathan has wrestled with privacy issues at the application layer, for example in SIP. The IAB agreed that it is important to look at the complete privacy picture but it doesn’t want to derail the current privacy BOF.

10. Tech Chats — purpose, planning, topics

The IAB reviewed the purpose of its tech chats, which is to present a technical issue in sufficient detail that IAB members can understand and discuss it intelligently. The tech chat may or may not result in further action items for the IAB. The IAB agreed that it is hard to change topics at the last minute. The IAB agreed that discussion leaders should send out material (by Friday the week before) to give participants time to prepare for the tech chat. The IAB discussed the value of having a pool of potential tech chat topics, while avoiding a rigid long-term schedule so it can respond quickly to current events. Some possible future topics are multihoming and routing table growth (led by Lixia) and mobility (led by Pekka). The IAB agreed to discuss MPLS (led by Loa) for its July 24 tech chat.

11. Preparation for IETF63/IAB agenda planning

The IAB discussed its schedule for IETF63 in Paris. The IAB will meet jointly with the IESG over Sunday lunch, followed by an IAB-only afternoon meeting. It will have breakfast meetings Monday through Friday. The Monday, Wednesday, and Friday meetings will be joint with the IESG. Brian said that he’s invited the secretariat staff to drop in one morning to be introduced.

The IAB discussed the possibility of an IRTF RG presentation to the IAB. Aaron proposed mobobts. Aaron has the action of confirming this with Leslie. The purpose of the presentation (typically given by the RG chairs) is to provide an opportunity to hear and discuss what the RG is doing and what they think are reasonable directions.

12. IEEE 802 relationship paper

Bernard submitted a new version of the IEEE 802 relationship document:

draft-iab-ieee-802-rel-00.txt

The IAB discussed responsible AD’s – Bert is responsible for MIB stuff, other ADs would handle other aspects (like INT for EAP). The IAB agreed that MIB transfer should be handled in a separate document. The IAB agreed that IETF counsel should be involved in MIB transfer, because there are intellectual property issues and we want the MIBs to remain public. Another issue is how to handle MIB Doctor review in the IEEE 802 voting process. Bernard listed the following open issues in the relationship document:

• MIB transfer
• Earlier review of new work (in both directions)
• EAP and AAA usage in IEEE 802
• Mechanisms or processes to prevent the IEEE from changing IETF protocols
• IEEE 802 wants to know how it is expected to provide input to TRILL

The IAB also agreed that it needs to discuss the MPLS / MFA Alliance liaison at some point.

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Appendix A
IAB Actions

Guidelines for IETF Liaisons

Loa Andersson
Initiated: June 2005
Goal: Describe IETF liaison relationship to other organizations.
Status: Loa has circulated draft text to the IAB.

Global Standards Conference

Leslie Daigle, Brian Carpenter
Initiated: May 2005
Goal: Should the IETF participate this year? If so, who? Leslie will ask for the agenda because a week seems excessive.
Status: Done – we will not attend.

IESG Concerns Regarding RFC Processing

Brian Carpenter, Leslie Daigle
Initiated: May 2005
Goal: Resolve concerns regarding lack of visibility into RFC Editor state, copy-editing, and excessive author changes in AUTH48. Gather feedback from community.
Status: The “techspec” BOF is scheduled for Paris and a related draft is in the queue.

IAB Web Site

Rich Draves
Initiated: April 2005
Goal: Review and update the public web site. Find a private web site.
Status: IAB RSS feed is working again. No progress yet on private web hosting.

IDN Ad Hoc

Patrik Fältström, Pete Resnick
Initiated: March 2005
Goal: Create a mailing list and initiate discussion for IAB ad hoc committee on Internationalized Domain Names.
Status: Wrote a summary of current status and circulated to the group and the IAB.

ICANN TLG Liaison

Leslie Daigle
Initiated: March 2005
Goal: Inform ICANN that we are not renewing a liaison to the ICANN TLG
Status: Almost done, Leslie still trying to schedule an informal chat with Vint Cerf.

IAB Messaging Workshop

Pete Resnick
Initiated: April 2004
Goal: Issue workshop report and create archive of workshop material.
Status: ?? We neglected to revisit during telechat.

IPv6 Policies

IPv6AD Hoc Advisory Committee
Initiated: May 2004
Goal: Passed a set of current IPv6 issues to the ad-hoc IAB advisory committee on IPv6 addressing issues: ip6.int deprecation, hd-ratio considerations, minimum IANA IPv6 allocation unit, IANA IPv6 registry terminology and format
Status: Leslie needs to poke Thomas but will not have a chance before the business meeting. Also see draft-narten-iana-rir-ipv6-considerations-00.txt.

DNS Ops TLD Operation

Kurtis Lindqvist, Dave Meyer, Lixia Zhang
Initiated: September 2004
Goal: DNSOPS WG activity on TLD operational considerations. Offer of editorial assistance in any WG document to be made to the WG.
Status: First draft circulated to usual DNS suspects for comments. Will probably want to split into two documents to incorporate feedback.

IPv6 Multi-Address Considerations

Bob Hinden
Initiated: September 2004
Goal: Document considerations relating to address selection procedures and potential side effects in a multi-address- ing environment with scoped and global addresses
Status: No progress

Tech Chat Schedule

Leslie Daigle, Loa Andersson, Pekka Nikander
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Create tech chat schedule, topic proposals due from Loa and Pekka
Status: see separate agenda item

Architectural Issues

Pekka Nikander
Initiated: April 2005
Goal: Revise/maintain the list of architectural issues on the IAB web pages. These can also be discussed at the IAB retreat and guide future tech chat topic selection.
Status: Dave Meyer is reviewing Pekka’s list.

RFC Editor Copyright

Leslie Daigle, Brian Carpenter
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Pass RFC Editor Copyright provisions to IETF legal counsel for review with respect to permissions relating to protection of IETF interests, integrity of the IETF Standards Track documents for derivative works and relation to any third party interests in the material published by the RFC Editor.
Status: RFC Editor has been given legal counsel’s opinion that their web site is still wrong. It’s low on their priority list. Rich will check RFC Editor web site after Paris.

Research Note document proposal

Aaron Falk
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Convene a group consisting of Vern Paxson, Brian Carpenter, Aaron Falk, and Leslie Daigle, assisted by Sally Floyd and Mark Handley to document this proposal and highlight related considerations for the IAB.
Status: No progress

ISOC BoT Selection

Rich Draves, Leslie Daigle
Initiated: November 2004
Goal: Before the next round, review the RFC 3677 process.
Status: We will discuss in Paris. Time to set this up now.

Proposed Congestion Control RG

Aaron Falk
Initiated: January 2005
Goal: Consult with ADs on the potential role for such a RG
Status: Successful Transport AD review, approaching potential co-chair, planning plenary heads-up in Paris, see IRTF report for more.

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Appendix B
Documents

A survey of Authentication Mechanisms

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-auth-mech-04.txt
Eric Rescorla
Initiated: April 2002
Status: No progress

Internationalized Resource Identifiers

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-char-rep-02.txt
Leslie Daigle
Initiated: November 2002
Status: No progress

Secure Autoconfiguration in IPv6

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt-00.txt
Bernard Aboba
Initiated: March 2003
Status: -00 was submitted. -01 to follow.

Protocol Models

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4101.txt
Eric Rescorla
Initiated: May 2003
Status: Published

Internet Identities

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-identities-02.txt
Patrik Fältström, Leslie Daigle
Initiated: July 2003
Status: No progress

DOS Attacks

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-dos-02.txt
Eric Rescorla
Initiated: September 2003
Status: No progress

Untangling Activeware

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-nat-traversal-considerations-00.txt
Jonathan Rosenberg
Initiated: April 2004
Status: No progress; may or may not get to it before the deadline.

Top Level Domain Issues

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-dns-assumptions-02.txt
Jonathan Rosenberg
Initiated: May 2004
Status: Updated text based on comments from Pekka and brief email exchange on utility values. Circulated to IAB list. Once OKd, will submit.

Design Choices When Expanding DNS

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-dns-choices-02.txt
Patrik Fältström
Initiated: June 2004
Status: No progress since IAB workshop.

Architectural Implications of Link Layer Indications

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-link-indications-02.txt
Bernard Aboba
Initiated: June 2004
Status: -02 was submitted. Have gotten comments from Pekka (thanks!). Security issues with remote indications are substantial, so we need to discuss how strong we want our guidance to be. For example, see:

http://www.ocipep.gc.ca/opsprods/advisories/2005/AV05-017_e.asp

IAOC Selection Procedure

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-iesg-iaoc-selection-01.txt
Bert Wijnen
Initiated: December 2004
Status: Finished IETF Last Call. Brian (as AD) received a number of comments. Danny (nomcom chair) would like to see some guidance for its selection.

IRTF Review

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-irtf-01.txt
Leslie Daigle, Aaron Falk
Initiated: December 2004
Status: Dave will resend his comments to Aaron, then IETF Last Call to make it an IAB informational document.

IEEE 802 / IETF Relationship

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-ieee-802-rel-00.txt
Loa Andersson, Bernard Aboba
Initiated: June 2005
Status: -00 draft posted. We have decided to create a separate document for the transfer of MIB work from IETF to IEEE 802.

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These minutes were prepared by Rich Draves. Any comments should be sent to
iab-execd@iab.org. An online copy of these and other minutes is available at: http://www.iab.org/documents/iabmins/

The IAB Web page is at http://www.iab.org

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