IAB, IESG, IEEE Executive Committee
Minutes of the 25 July 2012 Meeting, Milpitas CA
Reported by: Cindy Morgan, Susan Hares, Jon Rosdahl
ATTENDEES
---------------------------------
- Bernard Aboba, IAB Chair
- Gabor Bajko, PAWS chair, 802.11ai vice-chair
- Mary Barnes, IAB Executive Director
- Stewart Bryant, IESG
- Ross Callon, IAB
- Gonzalo Camarillo, IESG
- Benoit Claise, IESG
- Subir Das, 802.21 Chair
- Spencer Dawkins, IAB
- Ralph Droms, IESG
- Donald Eastlake, 802.11
- Lars Eggert, IRTF Chair
- Adrian Farrel, IESG
- Stephen Farrell, IESG
- Don Fedyk, 802.1 invited expert
- Norman Finn, 802.1 invited expert
- Howard Frazier, 802.3 MIB Task Group chair
- Eric Gray, IETF Liaison Manager to IEEE 802.1
- Brian Haberman, IESG (via remote)
- Joel Halpern, IAB
- Dave Halasz, 802.11 task group chair
- Mark Hamilton, 802.11 ARC
- Susan Hares, IESG Scribe
- Russ Housley, IETF Chair
- Tony Jeffree, 802.1 Chair
- David Kessens, IAB
- Eliot Lear, IETF liaison manager to ITU-T
- Barry Leiba, IESG
- Roger Marks, 802.16 Chair
- Danny McPherson, IAB
- Steve Mills, IEEE Standards Association President
- Cindy Morgan, IETF Secretariat
- Andrew Myles, 802.11 IETF liaison
- Paul Nikolich, 802 Chair
- Glenn Parsons, 802.1 vice chair, RAC chair, IEEE-SA BOG
- Charles Perkins, 802.16 invited expert
- Pete Resnick, IESG (via remote)
- Dan Romascanu, IETF/IEEE-SA liaison
- Jon Rosdahl, 802 Executive Secretary, 802.11 Vice Chair
- Robert Sparks, IESG
- Dorothy Stanley, 802.11 liaison to IETF
- Dave Thaler, IAB
- Pat Thaler, 802 Vice-Chair
- Geoff Thompson, 802.23 Chair and EC member
- Sean Turner, IESG
- Paul Unbehagen, 802.1 invited expert
- Juan-Carlos Zúñiga, past 802.21 vice chair
MINUTES
---------------------------------
1. Introductions, Goals of the meeting
The attendees of the meeting all briefly introduced themselves.
Pat Thaler outlined the high-level goals of the meeting, noting that
focus would be on how to improving collaboration between the IEEE 802
and the IETF.
Bernard Aboba noted that in March 2006, RFC 4441
[https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4441/] was published, outlining
the relationship between IEEE 802 and the IETF at that time. Bernard
suggested that the discussions during this meeting might result in an
update to RFC 4441.
2. Introduction to IETF Areas, how IETF works, how decisions are made,
how liaisons are managed
Slides: "Introduction to the IETF Standards Process,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/IETF-and-IEEE802-Leaders-2012-07.ppt
Russ Housley delivered a brief overview of the IETF Standards process,
noting that the IETF mission statement is outlined in RFC 3935
[https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc3935/]. Russ explained that the
IETF publishes their standards as RFCs, noting that over the last 10
years, 90% of the RFCs have come from the IETF, with the rest coming
from other streams, including the Internet Architecture Board (IAB),
Internet Research Task Force (IRTF) and Independent Submission
Editor (ISE). The IETF uses an open standards process where all
interested people are invited to participate, and decisions are made
collaboratively.
Working Groups (WGs) are the primary mechanism for development of
specifications and guidelines in the IETF. Proposed charters are sent
to the IETF community for review and comment, as well as to the new-
work mailing list, which includes representatives from a number of
other SDOs. The IESG approves WG charters with IAB input. Once a WG
is chartered, participation is open to all. The WG Chair sets the
agenda for meetings, appoints document editors, and determines when
rough consensus has been reached.
The IETF maintains a number of liaison relationships with other SDOs.
The IAB appoints individuals who serve as liaison managers
[http://www.ietf.org/liaison/managers.html], and all liaison
statements are posted publicly [https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison].
3. Introduction to IEEE 802 WGs, how IEEE 802 works, how decisions are
made, how liaisons are managed
Slides: "Introduction to the IEEE,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/ieee-introduction.ppt
Pat Thaler delivered a brief overview of the IEEE standards process.
Working groups are responsible for developing standards in an area,
and may have multiple active projects. The Technical Advisory Group
(TAG) is a group of experts on a topic area that crosses working
groups. Task groups/task forces are parts of a working group which
focus on a particular project or group of projects.
A Project Authorization Request (PAR) is the charter for an IEEE
standards project. A Call For Interest (CFI) is a brief meeting to
outline a topic and determine if there is investigating a possible
projects. Study Groups are formed to investigate a project and
produce a PAR and Five Criteria (broad market potential,
compatibility, distinct identity, technical feasibility, economic
feasibility).
The question arose as to whether IEEE 802 has a web page where
it lists the liaisons to other organizations. At present there
is no such web page.
4. Collaborating & managing the relationship
Slides: "IETF-IEEE Relationship - RFC 4441 Summary,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/RFC-4441-Summary.pptx
Spencer Dawkins summarized the relationship between the IETF and IEEE
802 as outlined in RFC 4441. Key points include:
- Liaisons are appointed between the organizations as needed
- IETF participants can access IEEE archives
- IEEE subscribes to the new-work mailing list and posts PARs
- IETF "MIB doctors" review IEEE 802 MIBs
- IETF EAP WG reviews IEEE EAP requirements as well as
IEEE 802-supplied draft text
- IEEE 802 requests new AAA applications; IETF reviews IEEE 802 AAA
extensions
Bernard Aboba noted that since RFC 4441 was published, some of the
IETF MIB work has been transferred to 802.1 and 802.3. Also, the EAP
WG has closed and for liaison purposes has been succeeded by the EMU
WG.
5. Specific areas where collaboration is needed
5.1. IETF MIF & IEEE 802.21
Slides: "IETF MIF & IEEE 802.21,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/IEEE_802-21_IETF_MIF.PPTX
Subir Das presented an overview of proposed work in the IETF MIF WG
that may overlap with work done in IEEE 802.21, and made the following
recommendations:
- IETF MIF should not re-do the work that 802.21 has already done
* 802.21 defines a Media Independent Services SAP (API) that
provides most of the functionalities that MIF is looking for
* 802.21 also defines low level Media Specific SAPs for the
underlying access technologies
- IETF MIF should identify requirements and make references to 802.21
SAPs where appropriate
* If non-existing functionalities are identified both MIF and 802.21
should work together
5.2. IEEE OmniRAN for Heterogeneous Networks
Slides: "IEEE OmniRAN for Heterogeneous Networks,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/IEEE_OmniRAN_IETF.pptx
Roger Marks presented a proposal for a new IEEE 802 WG to specify
access network abstraction layer above IEEE 802 access technologies,
noting that the work is related to some IETF WGs (e.g. DMM, MIF,
NETEXT), and made the following recommendations:
- IEEE 802 OmniRAN can close the gap and tie 802 devices into a family
of standards within a heterogeneous IP network supporting evolving
IETF standards
- IEEE 802 and IETF should…
* leverage each other's expertise
* plan communications
* identify commonalities
* link solutions
* organize a team to coordinate milestones and progress
5.3. BFD to detect Link Aggregation link failures
Slides: "BFD to detect LinkAgg link failures,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/bfd-and-lacp-issue-v2.ppt
Norman Finn noted that drafts have been written (but not adopted in
IETF WGs) for using BFD to detect Link Aggregation failures. Norman
suggested that BFD is at the wrong layer for this, and suggested the
following ways to avoid layer violations:
- Invent and use a Layer 3 equivalent of LACP that fits routing and
BFD
- Use Ether OAM; work with 802.1 to invent a way to avoid needless
configuration.
- Encapsulate BFD below LinkAgg thus giving the world two ways to do
exactly the same thing.
5.4. TRILL: Fine-Grained Labeling
Slides, "TRILL: Fine-Grained Labeling "
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/Trill-FineGrainedLabel.ppt
Paul Unbehagen presented a brief summary of the IETF TRILL WG work on
Fine-Grained Labeling which raises concerns about the use of the
existing 0x8100 Ethertype. IEEE 802 suggested that new protocols
should require new Ethertypes.
5.5. IETF NV03 and IEEE 802.1 DCB
Dan Romascanu noted that work in the newly-formed IETF NVO3 WG may
overlap with work in the IEEE 802.1 Data Center Bridging Task Group.
All parties involved agreed to watch these developments and intervene
if necessary.
5.6. Transfer of Ethernet MIB work from IETF to IEEE 802.3
Benoit Claise briefly described the process of transferring the work
from now concluded IETF HUBMIB WG to the IEEE 802.3 WG. The issue was
discussed in the break with Howard Frazier and Dan Romascanu. Most of
the open issues were agreed, and there is also agreement on co-
authoring an Informational RFC that will document the MIB transfer
process.
6. Impact of virtualization on the architecture of IEEE 802 and IETF
protocols
Slides: "IEEE Registration Authority: Virtualization & OUI Tiers,"
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/ieee/20120725/RAC_Virtualization_July2012.pdf
Glenn Parsons presented a brief overview of the IEEE Registration
Authority Committee (RAC) mission, highlighting the current RAC policy
on virtualization and asking what virtualization policy would reduce
the consumption of EUI-48 addresses. Norman Finn suggested this could
be an area of collaboration between the IETF and the IEEE 802.
7. Action items, follow-up methods, plans for next meeting
Paul Nikolich and Russ Housley suggested another face-to-face meeting
in March 2013, as the IEEE 802 and the IETF will hold back-to-back
meetings in Orlando, Florida. In the meantime, the liaison managers
will arrange bimonthly conference calls, with the participants for
each call depending on the agenda.
The following action items were identified:
- Spencer Dawkins, Eric Gray, Dan Romascanu, Dorothy Stanley and Pat
Thaler agreed to work on an update to RFC 4441.
- Howard Frazier and Dan Romascanu agreed to write an Informational
RFC that will document the MIB transfer process.
- The IEEE 802 agreed to review and update the people they currently
have subscribed to the new-work mailing list, and to send PARs to
new-work.
- The IEEE 802 agreed to add a page to their website listing their
current liaison relationships.
- The IEEE 802 will look at removing mailing list restrictions that
prevent IETF participants from contributing to IEEE 802 work.
- The IESG agreed to draft an IESG Statement regarding Ethertype
Requests.
- The IAB and IESG will suggest a process for providing feedback to
the IEEE RAC on Virtualization and OUI Tiers.
