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IAB Minutes 2019-09-18

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Minutes of the 2019-09-18 IAB Teleconference

1. Administrivia

1.1. Attendance

  • Harald Alvestrand (ICANN Liaison)
  • Jari Arkko
  • Alissa Cooper (IETF Chair)
  • Michelle Cotton (IANA Liaison)
  • Stephen Farrell
  • Ted Hardie (IAB Chair)
  • Zhenbin Li
  • Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)
  • Erik Nordmark
  • Karen O’Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)
  • Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)
  • Melinda Shore
  • Jeff Tantsura
  • Martin Thomson
  • Brian Trammell
  • Amy Vezza (IETF Secretariat)
  • Heather Flanagan (RFC Editor Liaison)
  • Wes Hardaker
  • Christian Huitema
  • Mirja Kühlewind (IESG Liaison)
  • Mark Nottingham
  • Greg Wood
  • Éric Vyncke
  • Suresh Krishnan
  • Alvaro Retana
  • Martin Vigoureux

1.2. Agenda bash & announcements

An item on the Independent Submissions Editor appointment process was added to the agenda.

1.3. Meeting Minutes

The following meeting minutes were approved:

  • 2019-08-28 business meeting – (draft submitted 2019-08-29)
  • 2019-09-04 business meeting – (draft submitted 2019-09-04)

1.4. Action Item Review

  • 2019-08-28: Heather Flanagan, Ted Hardie, and Cindy Morgan to set up a series of three (or so) virtual meetings to gather community feedback for the process. The virtual meetings should be spread to get the greatest number of time zones covered.
  • 2019-09-04: Cindy Morgan to start thread for IAB members to sign up to cover the interim meetings to discuss the RFC Editor Model.
In Progress:
  • 2019-08-28: Ted Hardie to request a session at the Singapore IETF (106) for Heather Flanagan to chair to discuss the process for the future of the RFC Series.
  • 2019-07-21: Alissa Cooper to notify Ted Hardie & Stephen Farrell when the final LLC COI policy is published; Ted/Stephen to adjust the text for the IAB and send it out for an e-vote.
  • 2019-05-17: Christian Huitema to figure out how to measure the effectiveness and impact of the work of the IETF.
  • 2019-05-17: Ted Hardie to write blog post inviting the community to come to the IAB with new work proposal.
  • 2019-02-06: Melinda Shore to take the pen on protocol designer version of “Trust in Internet Entities” Statement.
  • 2019-09-18: Martin Thomson to post draft-iab version of ESCAPE workshop report.
  • 2019-09-18: Cindy Morgan to send draft-iab-escape-report out for community review.
  • 2019-09-18: Erik Nordmark to work with Cindy Morgan to set up a mailing list to discuss architectural guidance around (local) flexibility when using layer 3 dataplane technology in general and IPv6 specifically.
  • 2019-09-18: IAB to discuss potential DOH workshop on the mailing list and identify chair(s) and a Program Committee.

2. Monthly Reports

2.1. IRTF Chair Report

–Begin IRTF Chair Report, Colin Perkins–

IRTF chair report to the IAB for the month encoding 9 September 2019.

# Research Groups

Ongoing discussion with proponents of the SMART activity about possible 
future IRTF work. Limited progress.

Minor charter update to COIN - no significant changes.

MAPRG is looking for an additional co-chair.


Blog post published re ANRP at IETF 105 

ANRP winner for IETF 106 will be Weiteng Chen (UC Riverside) for "Off-
path TCP exploit: how wireless routers can jeopardize your 
secrets" (USENIX Security 2018). Had also planned to make an award to 
Shehar Bano (UCL), but this has been deferred to IETF 108 to fit with 
childcare availability.


ANRW 2020 will be chaired by Mirja Kühlewind and Roland van Rijswijk-
Deij. Initial planning call scheduled for early September.

# Documents and Errata

draft-irtf-icnrg-deployment-guidelines completed IRSG final poll, 
started IESG conflict review.

draft-irtf-icnrg-disaster is in IRSG final poll.

draft-irtf-icnrg-terminology is in IRSG review.

draft-irtf-cfrg-argon2 is in IRTF chair review, waiting update from 

# Other

Update website to use correct ACM Authorizer links to previous ANRW 
papers to ensure open access; consolidate IRTF policy documents.

Discussions with Grenville Armitage re diversity travel grant 

Discussions with IETF Executive Director re 2020 budget

Discussions with ISE about cross-stream RFC status changes and IANA 
registry policies.

Discussions with IETF Trust to clarify licensing terms for IRTF logo. 

Discussions with Tools Team to add datatracker support for IRSG at-large 

–End IRTF Chair Report, Colin Perkins–

2.2. ICANN Liaison Report

–Begin ICANN Liaison Report, Harald Alvestrand–

ICANN report - up to September 13, 2019

This report contains ICANN matters observed by the IETF liaison to the 
Board for the period of July 4 2019 to September 13, 2019.

Organizational matters
- Board leadership - the board has decided to put forward Maarten 
  Bottermann (Nomcom-selected, from the Netherlands) as chair when 
  Cherine Chalaby steps down in November, and to put forward Leon 
  Sanchez (ALAC-selected, from Mexico) as vice chair. More details in 
  the blog post.
- Strategic planning - the board and staff are working on creating an 
  operational plan to match the 5-year strategic plan. It’s been decided 
  not to come up with a 5-year budget, but some guidance can be had from 
  projections from revenues and fixed costs; the amount of money likely 
  to be available for “new projects” is a single-digit percentage of the 
  overall budget.
- Organizational effectiveness - Brian Cute is driving this process 
  towards something resembling an action plan to be discussed in 
  Montreal in November, with eight main “bullet points” on his list.
- Reviews - it seems that reviews would be more useful if they were 
  faster and more focused. Some ideas (like having reviews have 
  timeframes) have been fielded.
  No new reviews have reported out (AFAIK) in the time covered by this 

Hot topics
- .AMAZON - the board has rejected the request for reconsideration from 
  Colombia on its decision to go forward with the .amazon redelegation. 
  Processing now continues, with the Public Interest Committments that 
  Amazon inc. has proposed being posted publicly.
- .EU in Greek (.ευ) - after approx 10 years of work, the board has 
  approved this delegation. Hopefully this is no longer a “hot topic”.
- EPDP aka GDPR accomodation - the EPDP Phase 2 working group met in Los 
  Angeles for 3 days - it continues to work on definitions for a 
  mechanism whereby ICANN can set up a mechanism for accredited access 
  to non-public registrant information. The techincal parts (use of 
  RDAP) are pretty simple; the organizational and political parts are 
- DOH and DOT - interest continues.
- DNS Risk Matrix - a first version of the list of “perceived risks”, 
  generated by ICANN’s OCTO staff, has been delivered to the board. The 
  SSAC has also started an activity on describing the risk environment 
  of the DNS, taking a somewhat less operationally focused approach.
- RSSAC / Root Operators - this work seems to be going forward as 
  planned. No plan changes announced; the report on public comments 
  reported that comments were generally supportive (and not very 
  numerous). The IAB’s comments were duly noted.
- DNS abuse - you can still get lively disagreements when asking “what 
  constitutes abuse” - spam being one of the things people don’t agree 
  on, while botnet command-and-control seems to be something people 
  agree to call “abusive”. ICANN Contractual Compliance has asked 
  registries what they do to check for abuse, and what their results 
  are; the form of answers has varied quite a bit making it hard to 
  summarize, but most have at least answered the question. Note that 
  this does not include CC domains or .com, who have no obligation to 
  report such findings.
- Universal Acceptance - no news, I’m just keeping it in the list.

–End ICANN Liaison Report, Harald Alvestrand–

2.3. IANA Liaison Report

–Begin IANA Liaison Report, Michelle Cotton–

IANA Services Liaison Report – 18 September 2019
SLA Deliverables Update:
- ICANN met 100% of processing goal times for August 2019 monthly 
statistics reports, exceeding the SLA goal to meet 90% of processing 
goal times.  These times include the steps that ICANN has control over 
and not time it is waiting on requesters, document authors or other 
experts.  Monthly reports can be found at:
Other News:
Conducting the Annual IANA Services Engagement Survey.  Invites will be 
sent out this week.  This survey focuses more on engagement activities 
as opposed to the post-ticket survey which focuses on performance of 
processing individual requests.
IANA Services Operator and IETF Leadership Meeting Minutes:
Summary of Meeting Minutes
Monday, July 22, 2019
Lunch Meeting at IETF-105, Montreal
1200 Local Time, 1600 UTC 
Jari Arkko, IAB IANA Program
Alexey Melnikov, IESG 
Ted Hardie, IAB Chair
Suzanne Woolf, IAB IANA Program
Russ Housley, IAB IANA Program
Harald Alvestrand, IETF liaison to ICANN Board
Kim Davies, VP, IANA Services, ICANN, President, Public Technical 
 Identifiers (PTI)
Michelle Cotton, Protocol Parameters Engagement Sr. Manager
Amanda Baber, Lead IANA Services Specialist
Shaunte Anderson, IANA Services staff
Alissa Cooper, IETF Chair
Portia Wenze-Danley, IETF LLC Executive Director, Interim
1. Introductions and Welcome
Welcomed Shaunte Anderson as a guest to the lunch meeting. This is her 
first IETF meeting and she is learning about the work the IANA team does 
for the IETF Community.
2.  Review of Action Items
M. Cotton: Gather information about .arpa
Still in process.   
K. Davies/M. Cotton: .arpa draft
In progress: 80 percent complete; should have something soon. Ultimately 
this will go to the IAB, but this group will look at it first. Coordinating 
with Verisign to make sure the idea works (leakage issue).  
3. IANA Services Activity
1479+ requests. 4 new registries added.
4. Update on Deliverables
2019 supplemental agreement waiting to be signed until the reassignment 
of the MoU to the LLC is complete. No concerns at ICANN re: MoU. Should 
have update by end of week.

Action Item: M. Cotton will check with Portia as to when supplemental 
agreement can be signed.
5. Update on Projects
How Did We Do (HDWD) survey:
59.7 percent response rate, 88.8 percent satisfied rate. K. Davies: we 
want to record how many were denied by policy (e.g. their port request 
was not approved). Also issues w/ people accidentally clicking the wrong 
button. We're following up with dissatisfied requesters. Since this is 
new, working on how to report and how to segment (process, policy, 

A. Melnikov: this is better than once a year. 
Shared dissatisfied comments concerning ports, media types, TLS.  

A. Melnikov: regarding media types, people wonder about encoding 

A. Baber: form makes it multiple choice, etc

M. Cotton: maybe the form can be improved to provide more information 
beyond template. 

M. Cotton: tracking down J. Salowey to ask more questions about the TLS 
Annual survey: 
We're not sending the requesters an annual survey. IESG, IAB, people in 
engagement positions will still get this survey, but the questions will 
be focused more on specific engagement issues. On average, in past, 
we've had ~ four IESG members respond. 

A. Melnikov: add management item to telechat asking them to respond.
Registry Workflow System Project: 
Making good progress internally. Working on reporting requirements. 
Using information gathered at last meeting as a base. One important 
piece of work from last few months: we've noticed similar terms that 
mean the same thing as headings of columns, such as "Contact" and 
"Reference" with additional wording. We're going through and trying to 
see where we can consolidate. We're not going to just change them -- 
we're going to consult with ADs, chairs, etc. Going forward, we're going 
to try to steer authors towards standard language. 

T. Hardie: good to get WG chairs on board early, as early feedback to 
authors. Get them standardized language. Send to WG chairs' mailing 

M. Cotton: also trying to consolidate references, harmonize registration 
procedures. Will take time, work with ADs, WG chairs, authors.
Working with authorization models, working on user data w/GDPR.
Hoping to process PEN requests by end of year (current system can't 
produce stats), then shift to additional FCFS registries.
Should have good update on using it for PEN by November. 


K. Davies did some drafting before, shelved it -- for variety of 
reasons, we understand that .arpa needs attention. Will share draft with 
group, perhaps 00.
crux: separate operation from the root servers
historically, caused challenge for root operators

T. Hardie: IAB says it was delegated to us so that we could delegate 
things -- we are seeing more of these requests. two drafts currently, in 
early state, a being used as a canary for DoH. This needs 
changes. there's another from Rosenberg, Cullen, others asking for 
changes to how, but if it's deployed it will be in another 
domain -- desire to move it away from the root servers is timely, as the 
root servers might find some of this work too risky or that might create 
a load that's significant even in a root server environment. (Michelle: 
did he say first is going to BoF? second is going to dispatch). 

First draft: they may want broad flat tree of many subdomains, hey may 
want special-use lookup where queries go to pseudodomain. 

T. Hardie: keep Jari in the loop.

M. Cotton: requested statistics too late. Working on this, will send 
separate email as we're working on this draft.

Kim; Do we want to kill iris?

T. Hardie: it has more than one deployment method, and it's only the one 
involved with IP address space that's getting no use. We don't know 
whether it's useful for the domain name space, so we don't want to 

K. Davies, M. Cotton: it's not bothering us. We'll keep getting the 
servers moved as the priority. 

T. Hardie: keep it on the list.

6. Discussion Items

Budgeting for FY2021: 

We have to do PTI budget before ICANN budget. Now's the time when we do 
consultations with stakeholder groups (SOs and AdvoisoRegistry 
Stakeholder Group, IAB, RIRs)-- do you have requests that have budget 
implications? Bylaws state that we have to do this. 

K. Davies: new priorities, shifting priorities, let us know. Aug/Sep: 
draft a budget, then come back to you for additional reviews. More 
substantive conversation will be later. But if there's anything you 
think we'll involve costs 12-24 months from now, put it on our radar. 
Email, talk to Michelle, etc. 

K. Davies: we'll do a webinar in early August for the different SOs and 
ACs, which can include IAB and IESG.

RZMS, management system, IANA website significant refresh, variant TLDs, 

Jari: from my perspective, everyone is happy, things are stable. I think 
your assumptions are basically correct. 


We get inquiries about using registry data. Our counsel is seeking 
outside counsel: pros and cons, what are our choices, etc. Other issue: 
use of work "IANA." Language says we're not supposed to use the word by 
itself. We use different terms in different contexts. We want to revisit 
IPR statement about use of "IANA" at some point and either add some 
language saying that we're using it in good faith.

T. Hardie: this group can't change that, you have to go to the trustees 
-- use the CCG. 

K. Davies: we just want the IPR requirements map to reality of how we 
use terminology. We don't want to be in breach of our contract. 

Action Item: M. Cotton to speak to R. Housley about a plan, but it 
doesn't have to be right now.

Update on Github repository: 

We have private one, but we're going to add a public one for experts who 
want to use it as a method of using requests. 

K. Davies: those who have requested Github workflows want to use some of 
that tooling specifically.

J. Arkko: is this for experts or anyone?

M. Cotton: this is for experts reviewing and discussing requests. We've 
been working with Mark Nottingham.

J. Arkko: there are multiple uses to think about.

K. Davies: We have a license, so we can make repositories private. Mark 
said he'd be more comfortable using an IANA-owned repo rather than one 
outside IANA. We know there's a demand to use Git. And this way we'd be 
able to see history of commits, etc. 

M. Cotton: no official process changes -- the experts would still be 
emailing us their approved change requests.

8126bis update: 

M. Cotton meeting with B. Leiba about a revision she has. Talking about 
calibrating language as we're looking at it in registry workflow system 

Ports Group Lunch: 

For the first time since RFC 6335, we're going to meet with Transport 
ADs and port experts. (Some will be remote, including lead expert Joe 
Touch.) How is mailing list working, percentage of rejections vs 
assignments. ADs want to survey all experts on criteria, are we too 
strict, etc.

TZ Database:

A. Melnikov: suggestion on mailing list (from calext) to encourage more 
use of IANA website for downloading -- imagine millions of IoT devices 
downloading directly from IANA. Working on figuring out which parties 
want what. 

T. Hardie: Why calext? doesn't seem to be covered by charter. If this 
gets planted, it needs a protocol development effort outside of calext.

A. Melnikov: Discussion is taking place in calext -- it just started 
last week -- but it will not become a calext item.

M. Cotton: We get a lot of questions about it, or people write to the 
mailing list who shouldn't. looking at IANA as a point of triage -- what 
should we answer, how can we point people in the right direction so that 
they don't bother the list.

K. Davies: Have been discussing informally with Paul -- trying to move 
politics off the list so they can work on academic questions. He does 
encourage people to use his private github respotry for pull 
requests .... we want an IANA role key to be signing releases, once we 
have github repository we'll try to bring this in, we want to make sure 
there isn't anything that can't be transferred to the next maintainer. 

M. Cotton: Could IESG designate trainee?

T. Hardie: First ask Paul if there is anybody he is already mentoring or 
who he is already working with that could help if he goes on vacation 
for example. 

Action Item: M. Cotton/K. Davies: Ask Paul about back-up

Staffing changes:

David Prangnell's departure, our technical director is leaving. 
7.  Informal Meeting Schedule
In Person July 22, 2019 (Montreal)
Phone September 23, 2019 (if needed)
In person November 18, 2019 (Singapore)
Phone January 27, 2020 (if needed)
In person March 23, 2020 (Vancouver)
8. Summary of New Action Items
Action Item: M. Cotton will check with Portia as to when supplemental 
agreement can be signed.

Action Item: M. Cotton to speak to R. Housley about a plan regarding 
IANA language and CCG assistance.

Action Item: M. Cotton/K. Davies: Ask Paul about back-up regarding TZ 
Database coordination

–End IANA Liaison Report, Michelle Cotton–

2.4. RFC Editor Liaison Report

–Begin RFC Editor Liaison Report, Heather Flanagan–


* RFC Format status
Heather Flanagan, RSE, is actively drafting the -bis document for RFC 
7991, which will describe the v3 XML vocabulary as implemented.

See also the RPC section below.

* Fifty Years of RFCs
Draft-iab-fiftyyears has been approved by the IAB for publication and 
has entered the RFC Editor queue.

* RPC resourcing
The IETF LLC has approved a short-term increase of 2 FTE for the RPC 
through the end of 2019; those positions were filled in August.

* RFC Editor Function discussions
Heather Flanagan, RSE, will be facilitating three virtual interim 
meetings and a face to face meeting during IETF 106 to discuss how to 
have the conversation about the future of the RFC Editor model with the 
Internet community. Specifically, she seeks to gather consensus on:
Who manages the community discussion?
Who needs to be invited to the table?
Who calls consensus?
The meetings are scheduled for Friday, 13 September 2019 at 16:00 UTC, 
Tuesday, 1 October 2019 at 13:00 UTC, and Friday, 18 October 2019 at 
02:00 UTC


Q3 2019 notes: The RFC Editor is transitioning to xml2rfc v3 this 
quarter, with actual transition occurring in September. In preparation, 
the RPC continues to familiarize itself with the v3 vocabulary and what 
makes a “good” XMLv3 file, report bugs to the developer, update 
procedures, and update our database and code base.

For additional details, see the mail about the transition and the RSE 

* Clusters, clusters, clusters…

A majority of cluster 238 entered the queue, which means 35 documents 
(over 1000 pages) were released into the edit queue at one time. This is 
the main cause for the spike in the queue; see Figures 2 and 3.

In addition, the RPC is actively working through a majority of cluster 
340. 12 of the 15 documents are being processed.

RSOC (in general):
	- SLA recommendation was shared with the IAB and approved. 
Portia has shared the timeline as a part of the response to the AMS 
notice about the SLA, and AMS has acknowledged receipt. The RSOC will 
continue to work against the milestones on the SLA.

* New SOW/comment period
	- The SOW comment period closes September 14th. The RSOC will 
review the feedback and expects to share feedback with the IAB ahead of 
sharing it with the community. We don't have a firm timeline for that 
yet, but we'll refine that process and share the updated doc or 
significant deviation with the IAB as quickly as we can. We recognize 
there is a tight timeline in place here.

–End RFC Editor Liaison Report, Heather Flanagan–

3. draft-thomson-escape-report

The IAB agreed to adopt draft-thomson-escape-report as an Informational document on the IAB stream. Martin Thomson will post an updated version of the document as draft-iab-escape-report.

The IAB agreed to send draft-iab-escape-report out for community review. Cindy Morgan will send the community review message.

4. RSE and RFC Editor Model Next Steps

Cindy Morgan reported that the first of the sessions to discuss the process for revising the RFC Editor Model occurred on 2019-09-13. The next sessions are scheduled for 2019-10-01 and 2019-10-18. Stephen Farrell, Wes Hardaker, and Ted Hardie signed up to cover the session on 2019-10-01. Wes Hardaker (tentatively) and Melinda Shore signed up to cover the session on 2019-10-18.

Ted Hardie asked the IAB how long the session at IETF 106 to discuss the process for revisiting the RFC Editor Model should be. After a brief discussion, the IAB agreed that the session should be 90 minutes. Ted will coordinate with Heather Flanagan to request that session.

5. Architectural quirks of segment routing

Guests: Suresh Krishnan, Alvaro Retana, Martin Vigoureux

Ted Hardie noted that the IAB received an email from Fernando Gont noting that some of the work in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-01 related to SRv6 has major implications for the architecture.

Martin Vigoureux replied that some of the functions in the draft conflict with RFC 8200, “Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification, in that they propose to insert extension headers in the middle of the path. The authors of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming have proposed removing that section from the draft. They also proposed reviving a draft in 6MAN to formally standardize extension header insertion into the middle of a path. Martin said that he believes this addresses Fernando Gont’s concerns.

Alvaro Retana said that when RFC 8200 was published, there were discussions about how there are differences in behavior in closed environments; things inside a network might work differently than they do end-to-end. Suresh Krishnan sent email at the time saying that RFC 8200 didn’t preclude future work on header insertion. Alvaro noted that architecture of the Internet is changing with things like consolidation and the death of transit.

Suresh Krishnan added that he expects that similar issues will continue to arise because there is not a good understanding of the issues surrounding things like MTU and error handling.

Erik Nordmark asked if there will be an effort towards standardizing in-flight header insertion.

Suresh Krishnan replied that it will depend on whether there is a way to describe how to do it safely.

The IAB agreed to set up a mailing list to discuss architectural guidance around (local) flexibility when using layer 3 dataplane technology in general and IPv6 specifically. Erik Nordmark will work with Cindy Morgan to set up the list. The list will initially be closed; it will be opened once there is a problem statement.

6. Possible DOH Workshop

Martin Thomson noted that there are two options for a workshop on this topic. One would explore the interactions among different security functions in use with DNS, and the other would explore the impact of recent trends of moving DNS query infrastructure to one or few central providers, such as what happens when browsers by default contact globally configured DNS resolver.

Alissa Cooper noted that the IESG is working on charter text for a WG that would work on this topic. Brian Trammell asked if the IAB should delay issuing a call for papers on this until after the WG is chartered; after a brief discussion, the IAB agreed not to wait for that.

Discussions about the potential workshop will continue via email, with the IAB working to identify chairs and a program committee for the workshop.

7. Next IAB Meeting

The IAB agreed that they did not need to hold a meeting on 2019-09-25. The next IAB meeting will be on 2019-10-02.

8. Independent Submissions Editor Appointment Process

The IAB declined to reopen the process for appointing the Independent Submissions Editor.

9. Executive Session: Appointment of New IRSG At-Large Members

The appointment of At-Large Members of the IRSG was discussed in an executive session.