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IAB Minutes 2021-07-14

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Minutes of the 2021-07-14 IAB Teleconference

1. Administrivia

1.1. Attendance

  • Jari Arkko
  • Deborah Brungard
  • Ben Campbell
  • Michelle Cotton (IANA Liaison)
  • Lars Eggert (IETF Chair)
  • Wes Hardaker
  • Cullen Jennings
  • Mirja Kühlewind (IAB Chair)
  • John Levine (Temporary RFC Series Project Manager)
  • Zhenbin Li
  • Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)
  • Tommy Pauly
  • Karen O’Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)
  • Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)
  • David Schinazi
  • Amy Vezza (IETF Secretariat)
  • Martin Vigoureux (IESG Liaison)
  • Russ White
  • Jiankang Yao
  • Jared Mauch
  • Greg Wood

1.2. Agenda bash and announcements

An item about the IAB Statement on inclusive language was added to the agenda.

Mirja Kühlewind asked the IAB to review the draft agenda for the IAB Open meeting at IETF 111.

1.3. Meeting Minutes

The following meeting minutes were approved:

  • 2021-06-23 technical discussion – (draft submitted 2021-06-23)
  • 2021-06-30 business meeting – (draft submitted 2021-06-30)

1.4. Action Item Review

  • 2021-04-29: Karen O’Donoghue to arrange a discussion between the IAB and the ISOC team working on moderation issues.
  • 2021-05-18: Ben Campbell (with Tommy Pauly and Wes Hardaker) to draft an IAB Statement on inclusive language.
  • 2021-06-30: Cindy Morgan to close the mailing lists for concluded IAB Programs and Initiatives.
  • 2021-06-30: Cindy Morgan to send messages to the mailing lists for the CARIS, DEDR, MARNEW, and SEMI workshops announcing that the lists will be closed (and then close the lists).
  • 2021-06-30: Cindy Morgan to close the single-use mailing lists that were used for various personnel discussions.
  • 2021-06-30: Mirja Kühlewind to follow up with the list about whether it can be closed.
  • 2021-06-30: Martin Vigoureux to send mail to the IAB and IESG about the list.
  • 2021-06-30: Cindy Morgan/IAB to follow up with the EName Workshop program committee to see if there are notes about the workshop that can be published.
  • 2021-06-30: Jari Arkko to frame possible IAB discussion topics on the role of interoperable apps in the Internet and the role of discovery in choice/distributed architectures.
In Progress:
  • 2021-04-07: Wes Hardaker (with Cullen Jennings, Colin Perkins, and Russ White) to come up with a list of subjective tags that define common characteristics of good RFCs.
  • 2021-04-27: Deborah Brungard to work with Alvaro Retana (Jiankang Yao, Zhenbin Li) on a proposal about the IAB coordinating outreach efforts.
  • 2021-05-26: Russ White and Jared Mauch to review the IAB discussion on “The Internet of Three Protocols” and draft a
    problem statement to see if there is work that the IAB can do in this space.
  • 2021-06-30: Colin Perkins to work with Cindy Morgan to schedule reviews of ICNRG and PANRG.
  • 2021-06-30: Karen O’Donoghue and Colin Perkins to see if they can find someone to speak to the IAB about data privacy and the role of data (AI efforts).
On Hold:
  • 2021-04-29: Tommy Pauly to come up with a list of things for the IAB to review during the WG chartering process.
    • Check back in August 2021
  • 2021-05-18: Mirja Kühlewind and Colin Perkins to continue working with Niels ten Oever to refine the proposal for a workshop on IETF participation trends.
    • Check back in August 2021
  • 2021-05-26: Jari Arkko and Wes Hardaker to send mail to the arch-discuss list at the appropriate time on the work ongoing in the ICANN root server system (once the work stabilizes).
  • 2021-07-14: Cindy Morgan to send email to the l3boundaries, ename, and ename-workshop lists announcing that they will be closed (and then close the lists).
  • 2021-07-14: Cindy Morgan to send draft-iab-arpa-authoritative-servers to the RFC Editor for publication.
  • 2021-07-14: Cindy Morgan to post and announce the IAB Statement on Inclusive Language in IAB-Stream Documents.
  • 2021-07-14: Jari Arkko to set up an outline for a document on consolidation and discovery that the IAB will live-edit at a
    future technical discussion session.
  • 2021-07-14: Cindy Morgan to follow up on the ICANN RZERC appointment.

1.5. IAB Document Status Update


  • draft-iab-arpa-authoritative-servers-01
    IAB State: Community Review ended 2021-06-03, on agenda for approval
  • draft-iab-covid19-workshop-03
    IAB State: Sent to the RFC Editor
    RFC Editor State: AUTH48
  • draft-iab-protocol-maintenance-05
    IAB State: Active IAB Document
  • draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model-00
    IAB State: I-D Exists
  • draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it-01
    IAB State: Active IAB Document

1.6. WG Chartering in Progress


  • Media Type Maintenance (mediaman)
    External Review
    IESG Telechat: 2021-07-15

2. draft-iab-arpa-authoritative-servers

The IAB approved publication of draft-iab-arpa-authoritative-servers-01 as an Informational document on the IAB Stream. Cindy Morgan will send the document to the RFC Editor.

3. Monthly Reports

3.1. IANA Liaison Report

–Begin IANA Liaison Report, Michelle Cotton–

IANA Services Liaison Report – 14 July 2021 
SLA Deliverables Update:
The June 2021 monthly report is currently being prepared and will be 
ready by 15 July 2021.
Other News:
Work continues with the IETF trust on licensing language for protocol 
parameter registries.
An ICANN community webinar is planned for the end of July for the PTI 
Fiscal Year 2023 (FY23) Operating Plan and Budget process.
IANA Services Operator and IETF Leadership Meeting Minutes:
None to report.

The next meeting is planned to take place post-IETF 111.

–End IANA Liaison Report, Michelle Cotton–

3.2 IRTF Chair Report

–Begin IRTF Chair Report, Colin Perkins–

IRTF chair report to the IAB for the month ending 14 July 2021.

# Research Groups

Ongoing discussion around LEO satellite networking as potential IRTF 
research group.


The ANRP award talks for IETF 111 will be given by Rüdiger Birkner and 
Sadjad Fouladi.


Programme now online ( and 
registration open. Scheduling ANRW sessions along with IETF continues to 
be difficult. Lars Eggert will step down as SIGCOMM representative on SC 
due to SIGCOMM term ending.

# Documents and Errata

draft-irtf-panrg-what-not-to-do -> RFC 9049
draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch -> RFC 9064
draft-irtf-cfrg-argon2 with RFC Editor
draft-irtf-icnrg-icnlowpan in IESG conflict review
draft-irtf-icnrg-icn-lte-4g completed IRSG ballot; returned to RG
draft-irtf-icnrg-nrs-requirements in IRSG final poll
draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke in IRSG final poll
draft-irtf-panrg-questions in IRSG review
draft-irtf-icnrg-nrsarch-considerations-04 in IRSG review
draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-07 in IRSG review
draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-generation-07 in IRSG review
draft-irtf-nwcrg-nwc-ccn-reqs-05 in IRTF Chair review
draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-18 in IRTF Chair review
draft-irtf-qirg-principles-07 in IRTF Chair review

–End IRTF Chair Report, Colin Perkins–

3.3. ISO TC204 Liaison Report

–Begin TC204 Liaison Report, Alexandre Petrescu–

ISO TC204 is 'ITS' - Intelligent Transport Systems.

My pair Thierry Ernst at ISO is copied to this email.

Please allow me to give a brief summary report of last 3 months.

1. Updated procedures of ISO.  This describes how ISO works.  The email 
attachment is titled "ISO/TC 204 - Release of the 2021 edition of the 
ISO/IEC Directives Parts 1, Part 2 and Consolidated ISO Supplement"; 
Communicated on April 30th, 2021.

   Such a document was useful for some IETF works recently.  I can send 
you the pdf if needed.

   In the LAMPS WG the contributors and Chair needed a way to speak back 
to ISO, at the beginning of this year.  They needed the most recent 
information about how to talk back to ISO about a quirk in an ISO 
documennt about the length of an OCSP field specified differently in an 
I-D.  It is by reading this process document that people who want to 
talk to ISO that they can formulate the liaisons.  Also, the persons of 
IETF John Klensin and Russ Housley are instrumental in realizing the 
liaison, but the process document is a basis.

2. Advertisement of a webinar planned in June 2021, titled "ITU Webinar 
and 6th meeting of ITU-T Focus Group on AI for Autonomous & Assisted 
Driving (FG-AI4AD), fully virtual, 2-3 June 2021".  

   It was organised by ITU (not ISO), but advertised to ISO as well, and 
further to its liaisons.  So it could have been advertised to IETF as 
well.  Communicated on May 17th, 2021.

   During this webinar it is (was) possible to assist and see which part 
of AI technologies might be interesting for IETF.  Generally speaking, 
AI is a heavy-compute function and cars don't carry too big computers; 
as such an offloading of the AI function is always necessary; but off-
loading means to use a communications network in particular way, and 
certainly with IP.  One might try to determine which WG at IETF might 
consider these communications needs of AI in cars.

3. Liaison from ITU-T to ISO titled "Functional architecture of roadside 
multi-sensor data fusion systems for autonomous vehicles", on June 22nd, 

  This is an official liaison from ITU-TO to ISO, and ISO TC204 in 
particular.  This liaison statement is pertinent to IETF as well, but 
was not sent as a liaison to IETF.  But one could informally inform the 

  For example, if I assume that a 'roadside multi-sensor data fusion 
systems for autonomous vehicles' is the deployment I saw in a City where 
people put lidars on poles around a round-about (instead of putting 
these lidars in the cars) one immediately sees the necessity of the use 
of a communication system.  A communication system of the size of a 
round-about is probably able to use just a WiFi network, or a DSRC 

  This work item might develop architecture at ITU, but IETF might help 
in developing a related communication system for this architecture.  It 
can be explored.

4. Next ISO/TC204 Plenary is in October.  In this Plenary I will attend 
online.  I will again advertise RFC8691 produced by the IETF IPWAVE WG 
at the request of an earlier liaison from ISO TC204.  I will need help 
to make this advertising more efficient.

5. During the last ISO TC204 Plenary, on April 21st, I gave a 1-slide 
presentation to ISO TC204 about what is happening at IETF IPWAVE WG. 
(pdf attached).  This was advertised internally to all ISO, containing 
all liaison reports from other SDOs into ISO TC204.  There were no 

6. During the last ISO TC204 Plenary my liaison pair expressed interest 
in a particular technical topic that might be relevant for IPWAVE WG 
(direct communications between cars by using IPv6).  But that is an 
informal expression.  If we want to bring to IETF then we need to make 
it more formal, to identify whether or not there are other organisations 
or persons interested to work on the topic, and more.

This is a summary.

–End TC204 Liaison Report, Alexandre Petrescu–

3.4. RFC Editor Liaison Report

–Begin RFC Editor Liaison Report, John Levine–

An ad-hoc committee convened by the RSOC is still working through the 
changes to the XML V3 vocabulary since RFC 7991 and making slow but 
perceptible progress.  We hope to wrap it up this month.

Now that the exec director has awarded the contract to redo bibxml, the 
[Temporary RFC Series Project Manager] is working with him and the RPC 
to ensure that the new version addresses all of the warts in the old 
version that caused extra work for the RPC, e.g., inconsistent treatment 
of author addresses and initials.

–End RFC Editor Liaison Report, John Levine–

4. BOF Coverage for IETF 111

The IAB agreed on the following BOF coverage for IETF 111:

  • APN: Deborah Brungard, Russ White
  • DANISH: Jiankang Yao
    • Note: Wes Hardaker is a co-chair
  • MADINAS: Ben Campbell
  • OHTTP: Wes Hardaker, Tommy Pauly, David Schinazi
  • SINS: Cullen Jennings

5. IAB Statement on Inclusive Language

The IAB approved the text for the IAB Statement on Inclusive Language in IAB Stream Documents. Cindy Morgan will post the statement on the IAB website and send an announcement.

6. Update on Liaison Coordination

Wes Hardaker and Tommy Pauly updated the IAB on the actions they have taken since taking on the Liaison Coordinator role.

So far, the Liaison Coordinators have had 30-minute calls with 20 of the current liaison managers, discussing things like:

  • How much time is spent interacting with the organization?
  • How much prior knowledge of the organization is needed to fill the liaison manager role?
  • Does the liaison manager send updates to the IAB about important topics (and if so, how frequently)?
  • Does the IAB communicate effectively with the liaising organization?
  • Is there anything the IAB can do to help the liaison manager?

The time spent by liaison managers varies greatly; many have quiet periods with spikes of activity. Having liaison managers report to the IAB every 6 months seems like a reasonable middle ground for most liaisons, with some reporting either annually or every 3 months instead, depending on the level of activity.

Most liaisons managers said that an understanding of the other SDO and the technology involved was required in order to be an effective liaisons managers. Specifically, liaison managers need to participate in both the IETF and the other SDO; picking a candidate with experience is critical.

Future action items include:

  • Improving liaison manager role hand-overs
  • Discussing whether liaison managers should listen to IAB calls
  • Coming up with a list of IETF hot topics for liaisons managers
  • Improving reporting between the liaison managers and the IAB
  • Reviewing existing liaison relationships to see if they are still needed
  • Encouraging liaison managers to use the e-mail list
  • Tracking contacts that are no longer active
  • Developing guidance on reporting and “early warnings”
  • Discussing changes to tooling requirements

7. Tech Topics from the IAB Retreat Redux / Technical Discussion Topics after IETF 111

Jari Arkko outlined some steps the IAB can take to better understand the role of interoperable applications:

  • Step 1: understand what’s going on
  • Step 2: understand why this is happening
  • Step 3: do something about it

In order to understand what is going on, Jari Arkko suggested looking at the applications on a user’s phone. Certain categories of applications are mostly interoperable (e.g. PSTN, e-mail, calendars), while others are not. Roughly two-thirds of applications do not interoperate at the app level. The difference largely comes down to business reasons. Different applications have different interoperability needs.

Wes Hardaker noted that businesses need incentives to go to interoperable models.

Mirja Kühlewind asked if anyone was willing to drive future IAB work on this topic. Jari Arkko and Cullen Jennings both said that they would like to be involved in the work, but neither felt in a position to be able to drive it. The IAB will revisit this sometime after IETF 111.

Another potential topic for IAB work is consolidation and discovery. Centralization and consolidation are driven by many factors, including economic and network effects, but also by some aspects of technology. Discovery can be an area where technical work might have an effect.

A possible outline for a document on consolidation and discovery could be:

  • Definition
  • Negative effects of excessive consolidation
  • Which issues are in the domain of economics/technical
  • Examples
  • Recommendation
  • Considerations

Cullen Jennings suggested that Jari Arkko put this outline into a document, and that the IAB spend one of their future technical discussion slots trying to flesh it out more.

8. Executive Session: RZERC Appointment

In an executive session, the IAB re-appointed Tim April to the ICANN Root Zone Evolution Review Committee (RZERC) for an additional one-year term.

9. Next IAB Meeting

The next IAB meeting will be on 2021-07-21 at 1400 UTC.

10. In-person retreat

Lars Eggert noted that he expects a decision by the end of August about whether it will be viable to hold an in-person IAB/IESG retreat in October.