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IAB Minutes 2021-09-22

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Minutes of the 2021-09-22 IAB Teleconference

1. Administrivia

1.1. Attendance

  • Jari Arkko
  • Deborah Brungard
  • Ben Campbell
  • Lars Eggert (IETF Chair)
  • Wes Hardaker
  • Zhenbin Li
  • Jared Mauch
  • Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)
  • Tommy Pauly
  • Karen O’Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)
  • Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)
  • David Schinazi
  • Amy Vezza (IETF Secretariat)
  • Martin Vigoureux (IESG Liaison)
  • Russ White
  • Jiankang Yao
  • Cullen Jennings
  • Mirja Kühlewind (IAB Chair)
  • Jen Linkova, PANRG Chair
  • Brian Trammell, PANRG Chair
  • Spencer Dawkins
  • Warren Kumari

1.2. Agenda bash and announcements

No new items were added to the agenda.

1.3. Meeting Minutes

The following minutes were approved:

  • 2021-09-01 technical discussion
  • 2021-09-08 business meeting

1.4. Action item review

  • 2021-09-08: Mirja Kühlewind to send the liaison statement to ITU-T SG13 on DNI.
  • 2021-09-08: Mirja Kühlewind to send the liaison statement to ITU-T SG13 on Quantum Key Distribution (QKD) (once Scott Mansfield confirms the changes to the text).
  • 2021-09-08: Cindy Morgan to send an e-vote on the ICANN NomCom appointment once the feedback period ends on 2021-09-15.
  • 2021-09-08: Tommy Pauly to draft text for the message to the ICANN NomCom candidate who is not selected.
On Hold:
  • 2021-04-07: Wes Hardaker (with Cullen Jennings, Colin Perkins, and Russ White) to come up with a list of subjective tags that define common characteristics of good RFCs.
In Progress:
  • 2021-04-27: Deborah Brungard to work with Alvaro Retana (Jiankang Yao, Zhenbin Li) on a proposal about the IAB coordinating outreach efforts.
  • 2021-04-29: Tommy Pauly to come up with a list of things for the IAB to review during the WG chartering process.
  • 2021-05-26: Russ White and Jared Mauch to review the IAB discussion on “The Internet of Three Protocols” and draft a problem statement to see if there is work that the IAB can do in this space.
  • 2021-06-30: Colin Perkins to see if he can find someone to speak to the IAB about data privacy and the role of data (AI efforts).
  • 2021-06-30: Colin Perkins to work with Cindy Morgan to schedule reviews of ICNRG
  • 2021-08-25: Jari Arkko to reach out to Ted Hardie regarding the ICANN RSS GWG.
  • 2021-08-25: Mirja Kühlewind and the Liaison Coordinators to begin the process to set up a formal liaison relationship with ISO/TC 154.
  • 2021-09-01: Jari Arkko to continue editing the document on the role of discovery in ensuring that Internet technology is broadly applicable.
  • 2021-09-08: Liaison Coordinators to come up with a list of potential candidates to reach out to for future IAB-appointed positions.
  • 2021-09-22: Cindy Morgan to document the current membership of the mailing list on the IAB website.
  • 2021-09-22: Cindy Morgan to notify the candidate who was not chosen for the ICANN NomCom position.
  • 2021-09-22: Cindy Morgan to send the chosen ICANN NomCom candidate to the ICANN NomCom Ops team, and announce the appointment.

1.5. IAB Document Status Update


  • draft-iab-arpa-authoritative-servers-01
    IAB State: Sent to RFC Editor
    RFC Editor State: IANA
  • draft-iab-protocol-maintenance-05
    IAB State: Active IAB Document
  • draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it-01
    IAB State: Community Review (ends 2021-09-22)

Tommy Pauly said that draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it should be ready to come back to an IAB Agenda for approval once the authors post a revision that addresses the comments received during the community review process.

1.6. WG Chartering in Progress


  • DANE Authentication for Network Clients Everywhere (dance)
    External Review
    IESG Telechat: 2021-09-23
  • Oblivious Applications using Relayed HTTP (oarh)
    [Formerly Oblivious HTTP (ohttp)]
    External Review
    IESG Telechat: 2021-09-23

2. IRTF Review: Path Aware Networking RG (PANRG)

Jen Linkova and Brian Trammell updated the IAB on the current activities of the Path Aware Networking RG (PANRG). The scope of work for PANRG includes (but is not limited to):

  • communication and discovery of information about the properties of a path on local networks and in internetworks, exploration of trust and risk models associated with this information, and algorithms for path selection at endpoints based on this information.
  • algorithms for making transport-layer scheduling decisions based on information about path properties.
  • algorithms for reconciling path selection at endpoints with widely deployed routing protocols and network operations best practices.

In June 2021, PANRG published RFC 9049, “Path Aware Networking: Obstacles to Deployment (A Bestiary of Roads Not Taken).” This RFC catalogs historical obstacles to deployment for path-aware IETF protocols over several decades. The RFC informed the development of open questions for PANRG. It does not catalog every path-aware IETF protocol, only the ones necessary to explain the obstacles to deployment.

Current Open Questions in PANRG include:

  1. How are path properties defined and represented?
  2. How do endpoints get access to trustworthy path properties?
  3. How can endpoints select paths to use for traffic in a way that can be trusted by both the network and the endpoints?
  4. How can interfaces to the transport and application layers support the use of path awareness?
  5. How should transport-layer and higher layer protocols be redesigned to work most effectively over a path-aware networking layer?
  6. How is path awareness (in terms of vocabulary and interfaces) different when applied to tunnel and overlay endpoints?
  7. How can a path aware network in a path aware internetwork be effectively operated, given control inputs from the network administrator as well as from the endpoints?
  8. How can the incentives of network operators and end-users be aligned to realize the vision of path aware networking, and how can the transition from current (“path-oblivious”) to path-aware networking be managed?

Next steps for PANRG include answering the questions above (draft-irtf-panrg-path-properties), considering research applications of PAN properties to IETF protocols (e.g. draft-dawkins-quic-multipath-selection), and reaching out to the ALTO WG to pull more research-oriented followup work into PANRG. PANRG will continue operating as a general venue for IETF-adjacent work on the intersections between routing and transport.

Jen Linkova noted that PANRG was originally envisioned as a robust program of path-aware internetworking and a vision for a future architecture with endpoint control. In practice, PANRG is a venue to bridge the gap between transport and routing and a place to provide feedback on the proposals that come into the IETF and fall into that gap.

Tommy Pauly asked whether the current PANRG model is working as a way to allow the IRTF/IETF more visibility and influence into the activities of people who are working on future Internet architecture.

Jen Linkova replied that it is; it has been nice to have a venue that provides a bridge between transport and routing. Brian Trammell added that there is a lot of cross-layer optimization and things that don’t fit into the traditional IETF layer model in PANRG, and that it has been helpful to be able to provide feedback and help filter in the good ideas.

3. Update from Measuring Network Quality for End-Users Workshop

Wes Hardaker reported that the Measuring Network Quality for End-Users Workshop went well; there were a number of good conclusions that came out of the workshop that may lead to new WGs or RGs. The next step is to work on the workshop report.

4. Membership on mailing list and Slack channel

The IAB discussed the membership of the mailing list and Slack channel, and whether any changes are needed to make it more clear who sees those messages.

Currently, the membership of and the IAB Slack channel is:

  • Voting IAB members: 13
  • Secretariat staff: Cindy Morgan, Amy Vezza
  • IRTF Chair (Ex officio member): Colin Perkins
  • IETF Executive director: Jay Daley
  • ISOC Liaisons: Karen O’Donoghue, Olaf Kolkman
  • IESG Liaison: Martin Vigoureux

The IAB agreed that having the same membership on and the IAB Slack channel makes sense.

Colin Perkins noted that the membership of the IAB mailing list has evolved over time, and in the past there was a case where someone sent a message to the list criticizing a contractor when that contractor was on the list.

The IAB agreed that it should try to do a better job of making sure that the community knows who receives messages on the IAB list. Cindy Morgan will look for a place to document this on the IAB website, and the IAB will include this information in the slides at future IAB Open meetings.

5. Next IAB Meeting

The next IAB Meeting will be on 2021-10-06 at 1400 UTC.

6. ICANN NomCom Appointment

In an e-vote, the IAB selected Paul Wouters as the IETF Delegate to the 2022 ICANN Nominating Committee. Cindy Morgan will follow up with the candidates and make an announcement.