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IAB Minutes 2021-10-27

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Minutes of the 2021-10-27 IAB Business Meeting

1. Administrivia

1.1. Attendance

  • Jari Arkko
  • Deborah Brungard
  • Ben Campbell
  • Lars Eggert (IETF Chair)
  • Wes Hardaker
  • Cullen Jennings
  • Mirja Kühlewind (IAB Chair)
  • Zhenbin Li
  • Jared Mauch
  • Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)
  • Karen O’Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)
  • Tommy Pauly
  • Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)
  • Amy Vezza (IETF Secretariat)
  • Martin Vigoureux (IESG Liaison)
  • Russ White
  • Greg Wood (IETF Director of Communications and Operations)
  • Jiankang Yao
  • David Schinazi
  • Ted Hardie
  • Warren Kumari
  • Daniel Migault

1.2. Administrivia, genda bash and announcements

The IAB agreed to change the time of their teleconference to 0700 Pacific time starting in November.

The IAB agreed to send out the call for nominations for the ISOC Board of Trustees on 2021-11-01.

Cindy Morgan asked the IAB to review the Draft IAB Report to the Community for IETF 112 so that it can go out on 2021-11-01 before the plenary.

The IAB agreed to add Greg Wood (IETF Director of Communications and Operations) and Robert Sparks (Tools Liaison) to the IAB mailing list and Slack Channel.

Lars Eggert and Colin Perkins will join the ISE Search Committee. Cullen Jennings will talk to David Schinazi about the ISE job description.

1.3. Meeting Minutes

The following minutes remain under review:

  • 2021-10-20 business meeting – (posted 2021-10-20)

1.4. Action item review

  • 2021-10-20: Cindy Morgan to send email to the community about the ISE Search.
  • 2021-10-20: Cindy Morgan to start a thread on the IAB list about the IAB meeting time after DST ends.
On Hold:
  • 2021-04-07: Wes Hardaker (with Cullen Jennings, Colin Perkins, and Russ White) to come up with a list of subjective tags that define common characteristics of good RFCs.
In Progress:
  • 2021-05-26: Russ White and Jared Mauch to review the IAB discussion on “The Internet of Three Protocols” and draft a problem statement to see if there is work that the IAB can do in this space.
  • 2021-06-30: Colin Perkins to work with Cindy Morgan to schedule review of ICNRG.
  • 2021-08-25: Mirja Kühlewind and the Liaison Coordinators to set up a formal liaison relationship with ISO/TC 154.
  • 2021-09-01: Jari Arkko to continue editing the document on the role of discovery in ensuring that Internet technology is broadly applicable.
  • 2021-09-08: Liaison Coordinators to come up with a list of potential candidates to reach out to for future IAB-appointed positions.
  • 2021-10-06: IAB and ISOC to coordinate via email to set up a group to agree on some high-level guidelines about how ISOC can talk about IETF at WTSA.
  • 2021-10-20: Mirja Kühlewind to send email to the LLC about the ISE Search Committee.
  • 2021-10-27: Cindy Morgan to update the IAB calendar to reflect the meeting time as 0700 Pacific.
  • 2021-10-27: Cindy Morgan to send the call for nominations for the ISOC BOT on 2021-11-01.
  • 2021-10-27: Cindy Morgan to add Greg Wood and Robert Sparks to the IAB mailing list and Slack channel.
  • 2021-10-27: Cindy Morgan to add Colin Perkins and Lars Eggert to the ISE Search Committee mailing list.
  • 2021-10-27: Cullen Jennings to talk to David Schinazi about the ISE job description.
  • 2021-10-27: Cindy Morgan to send notice to architecture-discuss and panrg lists that the IAB is considering adoption of draft-arkko-iab-path-signals-collaboration.

1.5. IAB Document Status Update


  • draft-iab-arpa-authoritative-servers-01
    IAB State: Sent to RFC Editor
    RFC Editor State: AUTH48
  • draft-iab-protocol-maintenance-05
    IAB State: Active IAB Document
  • draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it-04
    IAB State: Sent to RFC Editor
    RFC Editor State:

1.6. WG Chartering in Progress <5 mins (Public)


2. IAB Technical discussion: draft-arkko-iab-path-signals-collaboration

Jari Arkko walked thorough “Considerations on Application – Network Collaboration Using Path Signals,” draft-arkko-iab-path-signals-collaboration with the IAB.

Path signals are signals to or from on-path elements. Past signals were often implicit, e.g., derived from in-clear end-to-end information such as transport protocols data that happened to be available. This results in negative effects:

  • Ossification
  • Systemic incentives against more secure protocols
  • Basing behavior on information that may be incomplete / wrong
  • Creating an expectation that network elements can see rich data about flows

However, increased use of encryption has changed this for the better. Encryption is also an opportunity to redesign path signal cooperation to be explicit and secure. There is some existing guidance on this in RFC 8558, “Transport Protocol Path Signals,” and RFC 9049, “Path Aware Networking: Obstacles to Deployment (A Bestiary of Roads Not Taken).”

The draft suggests some architecture-level principles that could help future designers:

  • Intentional Distribution
  • Minimum Set of Entities
  • Consent of Parties
  • Minimum Information
  • Carrying Information
  • Protecting Information and Authentication

Areas where further research is needed include:

  • Business arrangements
    • E.g., expectation of paying for a service is core to many QoS designs and a big reason why various proposals have failed
  • Secure communications with path elements
  • Could path signals help combat denial-of-service attacks?
  • Protecting information held by network or servers
    • Going beyond communications security (e.g., Oblivious-X, enclaves)
  • Sharing information from networks to applications
    • E.g., mobile networks know a lot about network capacity, but can that info be safely shared?

Colin Perkins noted that this works ties in closely with some of the work being done in PANRG, and suggested presenting this document there.

Jared Mauch said that he was concerned that the increased focus on privacy in the IETF over the past several years would make it challenging to get consensus on adding more metadata.

Colin Perkins agreed, saying that a portion of the community will push back on exposing anything to the path, and there will need to be a discussion with the community to find the right approach for this.

Mirja Kühlewind noted that IAB Stream documents are not IETF consensus.

Jari Arkko said that the next version of the document will talk a bit more about the tradeoff between privacy and information exchange. He asked if it was time to send the document out to the community and let them know that the IAB is considering adoption of this draft.

The IAB agreed to consider draft-arkko-iab-path-signals-collaboration for adoption on the IAB Stream. Cindy Morgan will send a message to the architecture-discuss and PANRG lists letting them know that the IAB is considering this work.