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IAB Minutes 2021-12-15

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Minutes of the 2021-12-15 IAB Business Meeting

1. Administrivia

1.1. Attendance

  • Jari Arkko
  • Deborah Brungard
  • Ben Campbell
  • Lars Eggert (IETF Chair)
  • Wes Hardaker
  • Cullen Jennings
  • Mirja Kühlewind (IAB Chair)
  • John Levine (Temporary RFC Series Project Manager)
  • Zhenbin Li
  • Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)
  • Karen O’Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)
  • Tommy Pauly
  • Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)
  • David Schinazi
  • Amy Vezza (IETF Secretariat)
  • Martin Vigoureux (IESG Liaison)
  • Russ White
  • Greg Wood (IETF Director of Communications and Operations)
  • Jiankang Yao
  • Jared Mauch
  • Warren Kumari
  • Mark McFadden
  • Daniel Migault

1.2. Agenda bash and announcements

No new items were added to the agenda.

1.3. Meeting Minutes

The following minutes were approved:

  • 2021-12-01 business meeting – (posted 2021-12-01)

The following minutes remain under review:

  • 2021-12-08 technical discussion – (posted 2021-12-08)

1.4. Action item review

  • 2021-12-01: Liaison Coordinators to start an e-vote on the ISO/TC 154 Liaison Manager.
On Hold:
  • 2021-04-07: Wes Hardaker (with Cullen Jennings, Colin Perkins, and Russ White) to come up with a list of subjective tags that define common characteristics of good RFCs.
In Progress:
  • 2021-05-26: Russ White and Jared Mauch to review the IAB discussion on “The Internet of Three Protocols” and draft a problem statement to see if there is work that the IAB can do in this space.
  • 2021-08-25: Mirja Kühlewind and the Liaison Coordinators to set up a formal liaison relationship with ISO/TC 154.
  • 2021-09-01: Jari Arkko to continue editing the document on the role of discovery in ensuring that Internet technology is broadly applicable.
  • 2021-09-08: Liaison Coordinators to come up with a list of potential candidates to reach out to for future IAB-appointed positions.
  • 2021-10-06: IAB and ISOC to coordinate via email to set up a group to agree on some high-level guidelines about how ISOC can talk about IETF at WTSA.
  • 2021-10-27: Cullen Jennings to talk to David Schinazi about the ISE job description.
  • 2021-11-17: Mirja Kühlewind and Cindy Morgan to put together some options for the IAB Website revamp for the IAB to review.
  • 2021-12-15: Cullen Jennings, David Schinazi, and Tommy Pauly to check in with the proponents of the proposed Secure Credential Transfer BoF.
  • 2021-12-15: Mirja Kühlewind to submit the application for a liaison relationship with ISO/TC 154.
  • 2021-12-15: Cindy Morgan to send a reminder about the ISOC BoT call for nominations.
  • 2021-12-15: Cindy Morgan to send a message closing the ISE nominations and updating the call for community feedback on candidates.
1.5. IAB Document Status Update


  • draft-arkko-iab-path-signals-collaboration
    IAB State: Active IAB Document
  • draft-iab-mnqeu-report-00
    IAB State: Active IAB Document
  • draft-iab-protocol-maintenance-05
    IAB State: Active IAB Document
  • draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it-04
    IAB State: Sent to RFC Editor
    RFC Editor State: AUTH48
1.6. WG Chartering in Progress


[No new initial WG chartering in progress.]

1.7. Proposed BOF Requests


  • bofreq-secure-credential-transfer-bof-request-00 (2021-12-07) Secure Credential Transfer BoF Request

Lars Eggert reported that the IESG is considering a virtual BoF on Secure Credential Transfer.

Cullen Jennings, David Schinazi, and Tommy Pauly will check in with the proponents of the proposed Secure Credential Transfer BoF to see where things stand.

2. Monthly Reports

2.1. Multi Stakeholder Platform on ICT Standardisation Liaison Report

–Begin Multi Stakeholder Platform on ICT Standardisation Liaison
Report, Mat Ford & Andrei Robachevsky–

Plans for future process of identification of technical specifications

Article 13 of (EU) Regulation 1025 (2012)-Identification of ICT
technical specifications eligible for referencing forms the legal basis.
In part is says:

“..the Commission may decide to identify ICT technical specifications
that are not national, European or international standards, but meet
the requirements set out in Annex II, which may be referenced,
primarily to enable interoperability, in public procurement.”

Although feedback collected from the EU member states back in 2019
indicated broad consensus on the usefulness of the identification, the
Commission pointed out that it is not a mandatory activity ("may
decide"), and not much pressure from the EU member states has been seen
to proceed. General perception is that identification is cumbersome and
not the right tool for the job.

At the meeting several member states (NL, DE) confirmed their position
on the utility of the process and the wish for it to be resumed. No real
response from the Commission.

From our point of view the utility of the identification process for the
IETF has diminished since the establishment of the MSP, where it played
an important role in raising visibility of fora and consortia (like the
IETF and W3C) and technical specifications from non-traditional SDOs. At
the moment this is a norm.

Renewal of the MSP

MSP is up for renewal in May 2022, so there is still time. Suggestion
made in the meeting is to create an informal TF to discuss the future of
the MSP and potential improvements. Many expressions of support for the
MSP renewal from the stakeholders, including the MS. There are
unconfirmed rumors that one of the Directorates leading this activity -
DG GROW has lost interest and is looking for some new structures to
promote EU standardisation strategy.

In our opinion, with or without the identification process, the MSP
remains a useful locus for information exchange and collaboration among
diverse stakeholders, including traditional SDOs and policy makers. The
Rolling Plan seems to be a useful informal tool to inform the IAB/IETF
about the EU policy priorities and also to present important work at the
IETF that may be relevant for the indicated policy priority areas.

International collaboration

EU-US collaboration: In addition to the Trade and Technology Council
(TTC), or rather parallel to it, there is also the US-EU dialogue on
technology policy (“Joint Technology Competition Policy Dialogue”,
announced more or less at same time as the TTC . This Dialogue will
focus on approaches to competition policy and enforcement, and increased
cooperation in the technology sector. It aims to strengthen
collaborative research and innovation exchanges, explore new research
initiatives to set common standards and foster innovation.

–End Multi Stakeholder Platform on ICT Standardisation Liaison Report,
Mat Ford & Andrei Robachevsky–

2.2. RFC Editor Liaison Report

–Begin RFC Editor Liaison Report, John Levine–

The [Temporary RFC Series Project Manager] has resumed updating RFC
7991, which is a lengthy and tedious task. The changes are not large,
but getting the details right in a 150 page document takes a while. We
are slowly working through the list of diffs between the RNG grammar in
7991 and the one in the current version of xml2rfc and reconciling them.

For the ever-intriguing question of whether and how to revise the XML in
published RFCs to match the final v3 vocabulary, we've done some
experiments mechanically updating the unprepped XML to be sure we
understand how the final XML will change. We expect to propose a small
set of changes, most notably changing to a list of address
lines rather than the current complex and somewhat non-deterministic set
of fields, and add explicit default values for newly added attributes
like the paragraph indent value.

[The Temporary RFC Series Project Manager] has also been working with he
ED to review and finish the new authors site, and planning for the
transition from the current setup to the RSWG.

–End RFC Editor Liaison Report, John Levine–

2.3. ICANN Liaison Report

–Begin ICANN Liaison Report, Harald Alvestrand–

The SSAD ODP - worries arise

The discussion around SSAD (common intake system for requests for non-
public registrant data) has not reached a happy conclusion. Sharp
differences of opinion exist, with several parties stating the opinion
that the SSAD as designed will be expensive and useless - among other
things, because the cost, which is to be paid by requestors, is so high
that requestors will find other means of getting at the data, leaving
even fewer to pay the expenses.

(The process has also verified that the major cost driver for the system
is the verification of identity and credentials of people accessing the
system. This is not something that has a simple technical solution.)

The current target end date for the SSAD ODP is February 2022.

Root Server System Governance matters

The ICANN board, following the reception of recommendations (RSSAC 38)
from the RSSAC about how to restructure the root server governance model
based on the principles in RSSAC 37, established a working group - the
GWG - to come up with an implementation plan.

The GWG decided to redesign the model, which was not appreciated by the
RSSAC. Accordingly, the GWG suspended its work in September, awaiting
more input from RSSAC.

The RSSAC has now put together a new document, RSSAC XX - “Success
criteria for the Root Server governance model” - which tries to explain
in more detail what they think is the right set of goals for the

Once the RSSAC has finished voting on that document, it will be sent to
the board, and the board will have to figure out what to do about it.

Pandemic stuff

ICANN 73 (March) will be a fully virtual meeting.

ICANN 74 is still targeted to be a “hybrid” meeting, but this was a pre-
Omicron decision.

The board was planning to act as test subjects for small meetings by
holding an in-person workshop for those that could travel, but again,
this was a pre-Omicron decision.

–End ICANN Liaison Report, Harald Alvestrand–

3. ISO/TC 154 Liaison

Via e-vote, the IAB selected Mike Douglass as the liaison manager for ISO/TC 154.

Mirja Kühlewind will submit the application to request a formal liaison relationship with ISO/TC 154.

4. Model-T Program Followup

Jari Arkko reported that the Model-T Program met on 2021-12-07. The Program showed interest in two topics:

  1. A description of relevant changes in threat models, in terms of preparing for not-always-trustworthy endpoints
  2. Work on concise drafts on architectural principles to follow in design (e.g., how to minimize/safely deal with intermediaries, or how to minimize information given to an endpoint)

The Program also expressed interest in a possible future work area about exploration into the details of the developing endpoint models and how that affects security, from virtualization to cloud environments to trusted computing, etc.

In terms of organization, the Program felt that the threat model evolution might be more of an IETF activity, and the only question is what we need to do to get there. The architectural principles were viewed as more of an activity for the IAB, perhaps with the help of the Model-T Program.

A small group led by Mark McFadden will work on the threat model description, and another small group led by Jari Arkko will work on the architectural principles. The Model-T Program is planning to meet again at the end of January to discuss the progress in those two small groups.

Jari Arkko said that the IAB may want to look at revising the Model-T Program description to narrow its scope.

5. Hosting of video to support access from China vs. supporting the openness of the Internet

Lars Eggert reported that the operations side of the IETF has had a request from participants in China to make the video recordings of IETF sessions available on a platform that is accessible in China, as the recordings on YouTube are currently blocked there. Lars noted that there is a tension between the IETF supporting the openness of the Internet and being accommodating to participants in China.

Greg Wood has looked into other video hosting options. One option is Cloudflare, who already has an existing contract with the IETF. The Cloudflare streaming service is available in China, and could be used in addition to the existing service on YouTube.

Cullen Jennings suggested that the IETF might want to seek legal advice first, given the given the United States’s export restrictions against China. Lars Eggert replied that they will check with the IETF’s legal counsel.

6. ISOC Board of Trustees Appointment

Cindy Morgan reported that the IAB has received two nominations for the ISOC Board of Trustees appointment. The nominations deadline is 2022-01-04. Cindy will send out a reminder about the call for nominations this week.

7. Independent Submissions Editor Appointment

The Independent Submissions Editor appointment was discussed in an executive session.

8. Next IAB Meeting

The Next IAB Meeting will be on 2022-01-12 at 0700 PST.