Difference between revisions of "2020 Retreat COVID-19 Impact on the IETF working model"

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** we already have a reputation for being slow
** we already have a reputation for being slow

== Summary of the discussion ==

== Notes from the discussion ==
== Notes from the discussion ==

Revision as of 03:24, 5 June 2020

List pulled from slides

  • covid-19 impacting effectiveness
  • covid-19 effect on internet scaling / use
  • decreasing funding from economic downturn
  • impact of virtual-only work
  • travel restrictions
  • increase in nationalism may lead to less interoperability desire
  • Remote chatham house
  • not the only org going through these things, we have liason relationships that may change
    • we already have a reputation for being slow

Summary of the discussion


Notes from the discussion

  • long term changes from this
    • are we ever going back to a 3-conference a year model
    • wg chairs changing the way they work
    • how are we going to build the broader community relationships (necessary for dispute resolution)
      • more about common goals
      • respect comes from shared understanding and common grounds, often over cookies and bars
    • what new processes do we need?
    • long term timezone issues
    • how do we bring in newcomers and get them involved?
    • how do we get critical mass for new work coming in?
    • shifting through the mass of traffic for the important parts?
  • impact on workshops
    • virtually?
    • the only thing we run that isn't in the IESG perview
    • unknown if it'll be worthwhile
    • 2-hours is too short
    • 2-days remotely is impossible
    • common timezones end up putting meetings in early AM silicon valley.
  • employer/jobs don't respect conference weeks
    • they try to make you do things at the same time
  • cost
    • question this week about fees charged and why would WGs schedule during a week if they have to pay fees.
  • asynchronous meetings are needed
    • mailing lists aren't working
      • used to be more effective
    • github probably isn't working as well
  • mood: we're in the grieving stage
    • "nothing can be done"
    • "it hurts"
    • need to transition to future stages
    • need to have hope
    • we're old timers attached to old ways
      • are new people grieving?
    • everyone (other SDOs) are surviving in the moment
    • is the long term health of the IETF in the purview of the IAB?
    • if we're not thinking about new work/long-term health of the people then we're missing the long term viability
  • benefits of remote work?
  • impact on volunteer-ism
    • a lot of the ietf running is based on volunteer work (everything not AMS)
      • network
      • newcomers
      • running meetings
    • is that viable going forward?
    • do we need to consider going to a more professionally run conference
  • ietf vs open source
    • open source: common goals
    • perspectives are broader with more view points
  • tools
    • email vs github/issues vs slack
    • slack users don't expect people to have read more than one page back
    • github/issues
    • short conversations are a feature not a bug
      • deliberate way of blocking people out and getting a small group of people to get work done in a rapid-fire issue that then gets closed
      • the impossibility of following a discussion is a feature
      • makes it hard for new people to get involved
    • common methodology is rotating tools on a regular basis
    • need tool management / professional staff to run them
    • tools create different advantages for some with the cost of a disadvantage for others
    • need to figure out what tools work best for async mode instead of synchronous mode
    • do virtual tools require multi-monitors?

Preliminary notes from participants

Wes's thoughts

  • Impacts on the lost of face-to-face meetings
    • hallway conversations
    • timezone management for wide discussions
    • loss of voices in discussions
  • Work effort slow down
    • look ma, no deadlines!
  • Attendance
  • Registration funding misalignment with expenditures needed?
  • The sudden importance of manycouches


  • Rolling teleconferences always disadvantage someone, due to time zones. How to encourage effective asynchronous work?
  • Impact on the funding an organisational model as meetings become less important.
    • Difficult to charge large fees for an online IETF meeting if virtual interims are free, but the meeting fees subsidise secretariat costs
    • Are there alternative funding models that don't devolve to charging a membership fee or relying on corporate largesse?